Are the bosses back in charge now? And which is better: in-person vs. remote employees?
On this episode of the Hire Calling Podcast, Pete and Ricky are inspired by an article from the Wall Street Journal to discuss the power struggle between business leaders and employees. The article explains how leaders are learning new ways to conduct business now that the pandemic is over. But Pete and Ricky agree there’s a large contrast taking place right now between the companies choosing to make their employees come back into the office and those who aren’t.
Throughout the episode, the two discuss the pros and cons of each side, making it clear that there’s no perfect answer. They share some important considerations that all leaders should review before making this decision and agree that finding a balance from both a production and retention standpoint is key.
What’s best for your business? Tune into this episode and find out!
Things to consider before requiring your employees to come back into the office:
- It’s a business decision that will impact your ability to attract and retain employees. Depending on the industry and type of business, there’s a good chance some of your competitors won’t make it a requirement. Be prepared to deal with the fallout from it.
- The pandemic proved positions could be successful out of the office. If these roles could be and have been done remotely, that flexibility aspect will be expected. Whether they work in the office or remotely, the ones who put forth the most effort are the ones who are going to achieve the best results.
- Some employees need to be on-site, whether they acknowledge it or not. Many individuals would benefit from the structure and oversight that comes with being in an office to stay focused. Nobody wants to be micromanaged, but it’s almost a necessity for some portion of the workforce.
- Returning to The Office: Tips on How to Prepare Your Employees
- Characteristics to Look For in Remote Candidates
- How to Find The Best Remote Workers
- How to Manage A Hybrid Workforce: Tips For Making Remote Teams Successful
- Tips for Building a High-Performing Remote Team
Pete Newsome 00:03
You’re listening to The Hire Calling Podcast. I’m Pete Newsome. And I’m joined again by Ricky Baez, Ricky, I don’t know why I even say it that way at this point because you’re here with me almost every single time.
Pete Newsome 00:14
But we are your source for everything hire, staffing, and recruiting and we are back on a not-so-beautiful Friday morning in Central Florida today. It’s a little gloomy.
Ricky Baez 00:26
It is gloomy and to talk in, you’re right, I’m, I’m here almost every week now. Do you think now I can stop signing in? I can maybe get an ID card to plug in like anybody else has to run this office.
Pete Newsome 00:39
Do you want to be a permanent fixture?
Ricky Baez 00:41
I mean, I just keep signing in. I mean, I know. I know, the reception is now. I mean, her name is April. She likes flowers and long walks on the beach. And I’m kidding.
Pete Newsome 00:50
I don’t know where that’s going. But, we are here. And we are here to talk about staffing. And let’s start with the good news today. Can we do that?
Ricky Baez 01:00
Let’s do that. Let’s do that.
Pete Newsome 01:01
Do you know what the good news is? Are you in the loop?
Ricky Baez 01:04
Whoa. Is it the jobs report that just came out?
Pete Newsome 01:09
Did you see that? Were you have you been looking at my TikTok account? Ricky?
Ricky Baez 01:15
No, I’m a big Tik Tokker, but not for information that I need is always for entertainment.
Pete Newsome 01:21
The jobs report came out and it beat expectations to a significant degree 517,000 new workers were added to our payroll for this week. That’s a big number we averaged in the US 400,000 a month in 2022.
Pete Newsome 01:39
And it really runs in contrast to all the layoff news that we seem to be surrounded by right?
Ricky Baez 01:47
Yeah, it does in and again, this news continues every single repeat every single week, we see more and more organizations that are you know, having these difficult conversations.
Ricky Baez 01:57
But these job reports come out again, we talk and we call them when we first notice is what a few months ago, right? These numbers just are not adding up and they keep getting farther and farther.
Pete Newsome 02:10
To not add up, right? I mean, if you’re in the world of staffing, or recruiting, or really anything to do with hiring in your LinkedIn feed, if you if you’re active on LinkedIn at all, it probably shows what mine does, and everyone else that I talked to, it’s just a lot of people who are looking for a job right now who are unexpectedly unemployed.
Pete Newsome 02:36
And I don’t know if that’s, you know, just sort of bias it’s created by the, we’re around a lot of people who are in recruiting.
Pete Newsome 02:43
And we know that companies like Amazon and Mehta hired a lot of recruiters to ramp up their staff during COVID. And then they’ve ramped back down.
Pete Newsome 02:53
So maybe, maybe we’re not seeing the full picture, but it sure looks like a lot of people are unemployed. Given those numbers, the unemployment rate went down a little bit as well. It’s down to I believe, 3.4% 3.4. I
Ricky Baez 03:07
saw earlier which I mean, again, it’s great news for the economy. It really is. But I think we are looking at this economy, we are looking at this job report through a lens that doesn’t really exist for us right now.
Ricky Baez 03:20
Because we’re seeing it through the lens that we’re used to pre-pandemic.
Ricky Baez 03:23
Now we’re seeing it with all these different factors coming into the workforce today because the workforce today is radically different than what it was 30 years ago. Right?
Ricky Baez 03:34
You have more w you have more 1099 contractors than we did 30 years ago because technology is making it just that much easier.
Ricky Baez 03:43
I think that’s also feeling, again, no data behind what I’m about to say, that’s also fueling these numbers. And we just don’t know how to cook with those ingredients just yet.
Pete Newsome 03:52
I bet they’re not if you think about what you just said, You’re these payroll numbers wouldn’t be included. I’m sorry, freelancers wouldn’t be included in these numbers.
Pete Newsome 04:03
So it’s, it’s a bit of a mystery. And I’m not going to this will sound conspiratorial, and that’s not what I intend to do, right now.
Pete Newsome 04:17
Go down that path, but I’m not really sure who decides these are the numbers. And I think about that every time they come out from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
Pete Newsome 04:29
They gathered data through some method, maybe they detail it and I just haven’t I’m going to go back and read it right.
Pete Newsome 04:37
I believe ADP payroll contributes but you know, we’ve let’s be real. We’ve seen inconsistent data over the past couple of years in a number of different areas.
Pete Newsome 04:51
And so, it does beg the question if we know, companies are publicly laying off in significant net First, we know, if you look at LinkedIn that there are a lot of people who are looking for jobs right now.
Pete Newsome 05:06
So there are always a lot of people looking for jobs. But it feels and seems and looks like there’s significantly more than there was a few months ago. Do you agree with that?
Ricky Baez 05:15
I do agree with that, which again, further confused the assessment. Because just real quick, I know you said that there were those 10 that were announced will not be included.
Ricky Baez 05:24
But I’m thinking the more 1099 as we have now, that used to be w twos before, then they’re not being included yet. That number is small. So that’s why to me, it’s, confusing, but yeah, it’s, uh, I just had to throw that in the sorry.
Pete Newsome 05:38
Well, it is just, it’s hard to see what we’re being told doesn’t, doesn’t really coincide with how it looks and feels and being in the staffing industry.
Pete Newsome 05:56
I have lots of peers around the country, I can tell you that. Almost without exception, everyone I’ve spoken with is indicated a pretty significant slowdown in hiring.
Pete Newsome 06:08
And I trust the staffing industry more than anyone else because this is all we do. And I was surprised, let’s just say to see, hey, great news, we added half a million jobs this month.
Ricky Baez 06:25
And right underneath layoff at this organization and layoff at that organization, right?
Pete Newsome 06:31
Now, those layoffs even though they’re public, and of course not to minimize those, when an organization lays off 5000 People that is a huge number for any individual company, and certainly a very challenging thing for the individuals who were laid off.
Pete Newsome 06:50
But when you look at how that impacts the 160 5 million or so in the American workforce, it doesn’t really move the number very much.
Pete Newsome 06:58
So even if you add all of those together that had been public, I just don’t think the news is shocking. But the result of it clearly Well, I’ll say clearly seems to not affect the job market very much.
Ricky Baez 07:16
It doesn’t. But you know what I’m starting to notice there, Pete, which is, which is really interesting, especially with all these two different waves and the different information versus social media right now.
Ricky Baez 07:27
I’m starting to see that the more layoff we talk about, the more later we hear about the workforce the whole dynamic is changing.
Ricky Baez 07:36
There are other things about the old-school way of doing things that are evolving. For example, a couple of weeks ago, you and I were talking about the best way to lay somebody off.
Ricky Baez 07:48
I mean, we did talk about it, and whether Should we do it via zoom or email, and we went back and forth. Did you hear what HubSpot did the other day with a layoff?
Ricky Baez 08:01
Now, I don’t know if this is true or not. I saw this on somebody else’s page. And it’s a meme. And this is actually pretty good. Pete, here’s what they did.
Ricky Baez 08:09
So they laid off 7% of their workforce, right? And they sent out an email. And here’s what that email said, there are several things you can do.
Ricky Baez 08:19
Obviously, the person explained what was going on, it was a video, I’m sorry, it was a company-wide email, Zoom call, explain what’s happening, what’s going on, and say, Hey, an email is gonna come out with this information.
Ricky Baez 08:32
And it gives them a lot of really good options. It’s like severance, we will pay five months of severance plus an additional week for every year you’ve been with HubSpot for up to seven months total.
Ricky Baez 08:43
So regardless, of how long have you been there, you’re gonna get five months either way. And a week for every year service up to you get seven months, right?
Ricky Baez 08:52
Not many organizations do that because many organizations just start off with one week of pay for every year of service. But there are more medical benefits that will be extended through the service period up to five months.
Ricky Baez 09:04
And equity. They’re celebrating vesting through the first of April, that was some people can actually make it in, here’s what I found interesting. Laptops and work-from-home setup, keep it don’t bother someone in the back.
Ricky Baez 09:19
Go ahead and keep it and they’ll erase all the information through the air. And then later on, they’ll have a career support connection and your boss is gonna call you later with more information, what do you think about that?
Pete Newsome 09:33
I? What I think is that that’s great for the employees. It helps him but I can’t help but thank you. So five months, five months of severance.
Ricky Baez 09:46
Five months to start off and then a week for every year for five.
Pete Newsome 09:51
Minimum up to seven. I mean that it’s an expensive item and if you can afford to do that why not have them work? What? Yep. Right? Why not have them work for three months and see if they can get out of the hole?
Ricky Baez 10:08
All right. So we’re there, we’re there. Because at first, I’m thinking, wow, that is really generous that now that’s a way that really is a way who to, to lighten the blow.
Ricky Baez 10:20
But then I started thinking, that’s a lot of money.
Ricky Baez 10:23
Like how much if they would have just taken this money, they would have spent here invest in some other efficiencies, maybe they’ll come out of the hole that’s causing them to put this plan together, to begin with, you know, I suppose, right?
Pete Newsome 10:34
Unless they’ve determined that these employees just there’s no value to those employees. I mean, but in and with technology, as you mentioned, changing rapidly.
Pete Newsome 10:47
Yeah, I think that’s what Twitter has done. They’ve deemed this very large group of employees unnecessary to run the business.
Pete Newsome 10:57
And look, I I think back to my, my corporate days, and there will always there always seemed to be a number of people. It was every company has this kind of running toward a joke.
Pete Newsome 11:13
Where are you? Okay. I don’t know what these people do. Here. They just there are jobs that just exist. I mean, we we know that. But we are right.
Pete Newsome 11:24
Yeah, the whole thing is just odd, right? I mean, we can lay off that many people. But we have the money to pay for them to not work. Maybe fiscal management hasn’t been their strength in all of this.
Ricky Baez 11:41
Or how bad was that whole? I mean, how bad was it? Because the other side of that coin is, how do we get to such a bad play that spending all this money? It’s considered, money-saving?
Pete Newsome 11:56
Innovation, right? So that’s the right so the right presumably the layoff is a cost savings measure?
Ricky Baez 12:02
Right? And so you’re going to pay all this? Why didn’t we see this happening a year ago to prevent this? Right? Why? Why do we have to be a DEF CON one wish the bad one, one, or five?
Pete Newsome 12:15
Don’t do that, to me that DEF CON, whatever. Because someone recently publicly got it wrong. It was bash, so I’m going to abstain from that conversation. Got it. Okay.
Ricky Baez 12:25
I would ask Google, but it’s yeah, she’s worse. So let’s just assume Google. So look, it from, from my perspective, from my point of view, just bringing it all back together.
Pete Newsome 12:38
I have to stop you. Did you just call them Google as she did?
Ricky Baez 12:40
I just? Yes, I did.
Pete Newsome 12:42
Okay yeah, let’s move on from that, too. But I just want to make sure I heard you correctly, and how you perceive Google. So?
Ricky Baez 12:48
Yeah, let’s just move on. Yeah. Alright.
Pete Newsome 12:51
Where were we? Well, we were talking about how why they didn’t plan ahead better. And I get why you wouldn’t plan ahead better.
Pete Newsome 12:58
But I always struggle when I see these. Look, it’s very generous. It’s great. I mean, if you were an employee impacted by that, I’m sure they’re extremely thankful.
Pete Newsome 13:10
But from a business standpoint. Yes. It’s an odd thing to do. You know, it just is now Ricky, I. I just don’t know, I don’t know how companies get to that point. Right.
Pete Newsome 13:28
And I don’t think you do either. So we’re not gonna solve that today. Neither of us is, are in the CFO business. So we’ll move on. But yeah, weird times.
Pete Newsome 13:39
And so that there’s an article that was produced or published in The Wall Street Journal yesterday that says the bosses are back in charge. And what do you think about that are the bosses back in charge now?
Ricky Baez 13:54
Well, here’s the thing. According to this article, again, this is the Wall Street Journal, The bosses are back in charge by Chip cutter and Theo Francis.
Ricky Baez 14:03
So essentially, what they’re seeing is the pandemic, quote, unquote, is over.
Ricky Baez 14:08
And now leaders and organizations are starting to learn new ways how to conduct business, but some of the leaders are saying, come back to the office, still, come back to the office, come back to the office and their pain differently.
Ricky Baez 14:23
About a couple of weeks ago, I went ahead and put a poll on LinkedIn to ask if he was being offered, what is more, important to you.
Ricky Baez 14:33
Is it based more than commission more than base or the flexibility to work from home and build your own schedule at 10%? Let’s have what the original offer was at. A lot of people selected that one.
Pete Newsome 14:47
I would expect most one.
Ricky Baez 14:52
I would expect not many, and not many, because what that’s going to do that’s going to make that now from an employee up from an employee’s perspective, I wouldn’t want to, I wouldn’t want to jeopardize my income just because I want flexibility.
Ricky Baez 15:09
Now, that’s just me. I know that’s not everybody else. But I guess what I’m saying is, the more and more people do that, the more and more common is going to become.
Ricky Baez 15:18
And now that again, just working from home is going to be one of those things that you’re going to see in the compensation package as common as HMOs.
Ricky Baez 15:25
And it’s changing. So this pandemic, where this article is talking about, is talking about how they’re laying people off the way they’re laying people off, and how everything is being restructured and bringing people back into the office.
Ricky Baez 15:40
A lot of the people who were laid off are folks who didn’t want to come back into the office anyway.
Ricky Baez 15:46
So that kind of put some people on the chopping block. And that made me think because a lot of people will say, well, that’s discrimination. It’s not. It’s not right, because that’s not protected by law from an EEOC perspective.
Ricky Baez 15:59
But this article is, it’s really interesting, because again,, it talks about the notion of this power struggle between employees and business leaders. And I don’t think there is a power struggle. What about you?
Pete Newsome 16:14
I think there is, I don’t know if that’s the right phrase but I think there’s a big contrast taking place right now, for us, you have companies that are choosing to make employees come back to the office, and you have those who are not.
Pete Newsome 16:33
So immediately, as we’ve talked about, you just alluded to, but we talked about it in some depth a couple of weeks ago, this is a business decision, and it’s going to impact your ability to attract and retain employees.
Pete Newsome 16:49
No question about it. Okay, so that needs to be considered.
Pete Newsome 16:53
And then and then the NAFTA, that consideration if you decide, for whatever reason, you want your employees back, knowing that, depending on the industry, and the type of business, in the geography and all those things, there’s a very good chance some of your competitors will not make that requirement, then you have to deal with the fallout from it.
Pete Newsome 17:15
And how you deal with it as an organization is that’s a minefield, right? Because you could take a hard stance and say come back or else. Companies are doing that right now.
Pete Newsome 17:29
You can give them more of a warning. It’s I guess, it depends on how interested you are to retain your employees versus Correct. letting that be sort of a subtle form of a layoff, but I would suspect and make it when you like when you when there’s when a layoff is necessary.
Pete Newsome 17:52
Downsizing is necessary. Nobody cuts their top employees. Nobody cuts their top producers. So I would, I would argue and suspect that in many cases like this, the top producers are the ones that are going to say, I don’t need to come back if I don’t want to have a problem. Right?
Ricky Baez 18:13
Correct. Because you know, from again, just generally speaking, when HR is involved in a layoff, they always say cut X percent.
Ricky Baez 18:22
And we always focus on the bottom right course. So but here’s the thing, it’s, I understand, some leaders will say, no, I need these positions back in the office.
Ricky Baez 18:34
But the pandemic proved that these positions can be successful, not in the office. So there’s no real rationale, somebody can argue, well, these positions need to be in the office.
Ricky Baez 18:43
Well, no, they don’t.
Ricky Baez 18:44
Because if they were not in the office during the pandemic, and that was too successful during a pandemic, working from home, then the need just isn’t there other than maybe the trust isn’t there, and that has got nothing to do with work and more to do with the leader or the culture of the organization.
Pete Newsome 19:00
Well, some positions do need to be on-site. Right? Some doctor or surgeon needs to be on site. Right.
Ricky Baez 19:15
So they never worked from home during the pandemic, though, because that position cannot be done from home.
Pete Newsome 19:20
Good point. Good point. You were never able to do it from home. That’s never a good point. That makes sense. Here’s it. Here’s what I will say based on my eye believing this strongly.
Pete Newsome 19:32
Some employees need to be on-site, whether they acknowledge it or not.
Pete Newsome 19:36
And I have someone in mind right now, who is a person I know who just has a very difficult time managing their own schedule and adhering to that.
Pete Newsome 19:53
And I was just thinking about this, independently of this conversation a couple of days ago that, this person is probably suited to be in an office and would benefit from the structure and the oversight that comes with being in an office where most.
Pete Newsome 20:14
Look, I don’t think anyone wants to be micromanaged. And none of them get it, anyone wants someone looking over their shoulder.
Pete Newsome 20:21
But for a large portion I won’t say that, for some portion, of the workforce, it’s almost a necessity.
Pete Newsome 20:29
Do you agree? That people may not even realize that I just I mean, as someone who’s been on this planet for 51 years, and has observed a lot of different types of people, as someone who’s had a lot of different employees, as someone who’s worked with a lot of other employees and just my peers I, I was working remotely in 2004 and 2005 2006.
Pete Newsome 20:58
And I was working for a large organization prior to starting my business and I said 2006 was not true, I started in 2005.
Pete Newsome 21:07
But for the few years prior, and I can tell you, I could name names, which I will not have, who was remote and not. And not working, spending a lot of time doing things that didn’t involve work, and ultimately it caught up to him and they were they lost their jobs as a result.
Pete Newsome 21:25
I’m in a situation now where I’m the last one to know they didn’t, is people in some cases, were my peers, they didn’t mind if I knew that they were off goofing around.
Ricky Baez 21:42
Now, no one’s gonna I’m not gonna I’m the boss, I’m not going to find out if anyone gets what I’m doing right now.
Pete Newsome 21:43
That’s it. And but look, I think that stuff catches up with people, ultimately. So I don’t spend time worrying about that. What I will, my point is simply that there are people who need structure and need that kind of oversight in order to in order in order to stay focused.
Ricky Baez 22:04
So coming from somebody who now works for himself, I am in charge of my own schedule. I could not agree with that more. I mean, I really do agree with that.
Ricky Baez 22:15
Because with me, I, it’s harder. If I knew I had to do a presentation for a CEO, I knew what I had to do, I’ll get up at whatever time I have to get up, and I will make it happen.
Ricky Baez 22:27
Because I want to make sure I deliver I over-deliver with the services that I promised. But if it’s just me, and I’m holding myself accountable, I’m not good at that piece.
Ricky Baez 22:38
So for me, it’s that much harder for me to do what I said to myself that I am going to do, I’m going to wake up at 7 am and do ABC 930, I’m going to do this, if it’s just me, it’s easier for me to bend that discipline than it is for somebody else.
Ricky Baez 22:52
So to bring this back to this question to this conversation, when I had to go into an office, it was easier for me to keep to my schedule.
Ricky Baez 23:00
So you’re 100% right when it’s just me right now, it takes us that much more energy for me to keep to the same schedule that I did before. When I was with somebody else. You’re right.
Pete Newsome 23:09
So when I my first job out of school, and I’ve told this story countless times, my first interview question for the job that I ended up getting was not much of a question at all.
Pete Newsome 23:20
The guy who interviewed me said, we work eight to eight, and I’ve gotten this wrong for him. We get this right this time, Ricky, we work eight to eight, Monday through Thursday, and eight to five on Friday. Should we continue the interview now? I was broke.
Pete Newsome 23:34
I had a not-so-great GPA and my degree wasn’t going to have companies lined up out the door to hire me. So I but I was motivated and driven and there was an opportunity presented to me that sounded like I could make good money. So I said yep, we should continue and there was I’m thankful to say now that was not an exaggeration.
Pete Newsome 24:01
I was in the office every day before eight I never left before 8 pm And I most of the time I was working 70-hour weeks.
Pete Newsome 24:01
And the work ethic that was instilled in me in a professional setting and I’m not talking about as a child or anything like that in my first professional job.
Pete Newsome 24:20
I was working by today’s standards which sounds probably like ridiculous hours to a lot of people.
Pete Newsome 24:27
But that was instilled in me and this has stayed with me and has allowed me to be someone who can work at home and be disciplined in fact I work more now than I’m at home and always have backed prior to starting my own business as an employee.
Pete Newsome 24:43
I was the perfect one to work at home because I felt like my day never ended.
Pete Newsome 24:47
I just kept that I had dinner with my wife and the kids played with them for a little while my kids were much younger mine only had two of the four that were born then.
Pete Newsome 24:57
And I’d go back to stop around sick said go back to work around eight and I would regularly work past midnight.
Pete Newsome 25:07
But I think of that often in, in the circumstances, because if that had not been instilled in me, from the start, if I was, like so many young people coming out into the professional workforce today, and their first real job, quote, unquote, is working at home, you’re on your own, no one’s looking over you. I mean, I didn’t like it at the moment, don’t get me wrong, I hated the guy I worked for.
Pete Newsome 25:34
And I, you know, it was awful. It was a nightmare, in many respects, but it made everything I’ve done since seem easy. I’ve always worked with everyone as a result of that.
Pete Newsome 25:45
And anyone who came from that organization, for any period of time, it’s a very successful company, the people I know and have followed have had a similar work ethic instilled in them, which has allowed them to succeed professionally, in many respects.
Pete Newsome 26:01
So, I worry about a lot of the younger professionals who are just sort of left to their own devices at home, it’s not necessarily great.
Ricky Baez 26:12
I, I don’t worry as much I’m, I’m excited for them because a lot of them are in my classes right now. And I always tell them, I’m, I’m envious of this group because you get to see your world that you think this is, this is the workforce. And that might be true going forward.
Ricky Baez 26:32
But I’m experiencing this with you for the first time as well. But my knowledge is going into the office, seeing these folks the way this is going, which don’t get me wrong, I I’m a fan of flexibility.
Ricky Baez 26:45
But the way this is going, these folks are never going to know what it’s like to be by the water cooler than never going to know what it’s like the camaraderie that’s involved by just popping into somebody’s office as hate got five minutes to go for a walk get some coffee?
Ricky Baez 27:00
Or what is this Morgan State smoke break? Right? This is you know who the smokers are not that I’m advocating smoking. I guess what I’m saying is, it is going to be a completely different world. I don’t worry as much about this workforce.
Ricky Baez 27:13
Because to me, it’s they’re going to work the same towards a goal. But they’re going to use different resources that you and I had available.
Pete Newsome 27:22
So you don’t think that we’re here? Work-life balance a lot, right? And there’s an old joke, it’s been around, I’m sure you’ve heard it from me.
Pete Newsome 27:30
Gosh, since I was a child, you know, I don’t know who originated it was, you know, you can be successful working half days, and you get to choose the work the first half of the day or the second first 12 hours or the second doesn’t matter which, right.
Pete Newsome 27:47
I’ve never heard that. Yeah. I don’t know who the quote is attributed to, but I kind of screwed it up. But it was, you can be successful by only working half days, and you get to choose whether you work the first 12 Or the second 12 Doesn’t matter which and the point is you’re working 12 hours, right as you’re working half day, half of 24 hours.
Pete Newsome 28:08
And I subscribe to that. I believe that I think the more the harder you work, the more you’re going to produce and the more success you’re gonna have all other things being equal. So they of course come back as well work smarter. Well, I’m gonna do that too.
Pete Newsome 28:23
Now, what now? What do you get for me? Right? I heard an interview on a podcast the heard podcast earlier this week, this guy was invited to Twitter headquarters to interview Elon Musk’s Dave Rubin on his podcast.
Pete Newsome 28:41
And he flew from Florida and didn’t get to interview him. On the first day, Elon had other stuff going on. And then the next night, he went to interview him and he kept getting pushed back.
Pete Newsome 28:54
And the interview did it ended up taking place at midnight. And as he was describing it, there were people coming in and out of Elon’s office at midnight.
Pete Newsome 29:03
And wow, I heard that and I started to get it was invigorating to me. I’m like, Man, imagine what you can accomplish with that level of intensity and focus, right? So, anyone you know, people criticizes Elon Musk for various reasons, but his work ethic is legendary.
Pete Newsome 29:23
And you hear that and you see yourself surrounded by other people doing that with him. You kind of go Yeah, no wonder he’s so successful. Right?
Pete Newsome 29:30
I mean, it helps that he’s smarter than almost everyone else. But yeah, you can’t. You can’t shortcut that. You can’t replace that. Do you agree? And that’s what I was worried about when I say who because sometimes that’s what it takes.
Ricky Baez 29:44
So, I so you’re right, you can’t shortcut it. Here’s where I stop. I, I would want to know, are they walking into that office at midnight conducting whatever. They’re conducting because they want to or they feel they have to Alright.
Ricky Baez 30:01
So if they want to be different because they’re motivated, they share the same vision about whatever goal they’re working on. Is Elon, right?
Ricky Baez 30:09
So if they want to do that, that’s, that’s fine. But if they have a family at home, and they feel like they have to, I don’t know, is that a toxic work environment?
Pete Newsome 30:19
Oh, that word. Um, okay.
Ricky Baez 30:24
Is there a bleep button?
Pete Newsome 30:26
No, I mean, it just, it was interviewing someone helping it out there. I was there, she was someone else this week, and that that came up.
Pete Newsome 30:33
And this was a guy who’s I don’t want to get his degree wrong. But he has a doctorate in, in, in the world of HR careers.
Pete Newsome 30:46
And in personal development, maybe it is. But he was saying, basically, that the implication was that word is sort of a, you know, an easy go to a lot for a hard environment, a difficult environment, a stressful environment. I don’t know. I’m not trying to put words in his mouth.
Pete Newsome 31:07
Not exactly what he was saying. But it was, you know, a toxic work environment could be where someone is using profanity, nonstop, and being derogatory and throwing things in past toxic. I mean, really, we’re working hard and long hours. Is that now toxic?
Pete Newsome 31:23
I mean, my point is, did you the, so the other people want to be there with him? They’re choosing to be whether they or I don’t know why. I mean, everyone has the ability to turn and walk the other way.
Pete Newsome 31:37
I assume they’re being paid extremely well, I’m assuming they realize they’re doing something that is really cool. They’re working with someone who’s, you know, just, yeah, they’re working with the richest person on the planet.
Pete Newsome 31:50
I mean, there’s what I work until midnight right now, if you ask me, Hey, would you spend a year with him? You know, working by his side to learn from him?
Pete Newsome 32:01
Even at my age, and you know, I’ve experienced some level of success. Hell yeah. Without a question. So, did they want to? I mean, look, I don’t know, I don’t want to talk at all.
Ricky Baez 32:14
If I didn’t know the idea,
Pete Newsome 32:17
well, but they’re probably gonna be better set for retirement than most people by the time they’re, they’re ready. So everything’s a trade-off. I do subscribe to wanting to work around telling people they should work around the clock. No, that’s not the point.
Pete Newsome 32:40
The point is, sometimes it’s necessary. And when you’re young, and you haven’t yet earned any kind of level of stature, or have accomplished anything significant. Generally speaking, the one who’s going to put forth the most effort is the one who’s going to achieve the best results.
Ricky Baez 33:00
So, okay, can I give you two quick scenarios? Scenario A, right? It’s, it’s because you said something that really stuck with me. You said that, of course, you’re not going to force people to do it. Alright, so yes, you do have, sometimes it is necessary.
Ricky Baez 33:18
But if I’m the leader, and I say, hey, I need ABC done, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, here’s what we need to do. And everybody just knows we’re going to stay late because we all subscribe to the same goal. You have an amazing team, of course, amazing team.
Ricky Baez 33:35
But if I have to convince people to come on, can you stay Margaret? Can you stay Bobby, can you stay Mario can you do I have to have a little bit of conversation something else is going on there. So if nobody wants to stay sorry,
Pete Newsome 33:47
let me jump in. So when I was coming up my end my first corporate job, not the one, not the staffing job where I was working crazy hours, they told me to come in, but my corporate job was a cube farm and the directors didn’t leave till the VP left, it was on the floor.
Pete Newsome 34:06
And the managers didn’t leave till the directors left and the staff didn’t leave the manager left, right. I mean, it was like ground groundhogs up and up, looking to see who was still in their office or their cube depending on their level. And that doesn’t exist anymore.
Pete Newsome 34:21
And so you what I worry about is by default, you should be putting it in you should be grinding. I think when you’re young and trying to prove yourself and learn as much as you can.
Pete Newsome 34:37
And that is not universal. And I think it is great that there are a lot of people who can not agree with that and that’s fine.
Pete Newsome 34:46
But the people that I know are successful, all put in that effort at some point, right, whether it was in school, and those who didn’t do it in school, and yet figured out how to be successful I did it at a different time. And it’s easier when you’re younger when you don’t have a say, I don’t know, when you don’t have a wife and kids or a husband and kids and responsibilities.
Pete Newsome 35:11
And, you know, there’s no better time to do it because life gets more complex. And so when I say I worry about the young professionals as a whole, I worry that their perspective on that is not there was is they don’t get that perspective when they’re exclusively working at home, that’s a very long way to get to that.
Ricky Baez 35:39
I got what you meant. I think they’re gonna recreate it.
Pete Newsome 35:46
I think we’re gonna they’re gonna work. Everyone’s gonna work class, right? And guess what’s down significantly over the last two years? The productivity of the American workforce is way down. And I don’t have the stat in front of me. I wish I did. But that’s not a coincidence.
Ricky Baez 36:07
I mean, it’s we don’t have to discuss the end of the show that historically, haven’t we been working less, as technology gets more evolved and things get more efficient?
Ricky Baez 36:19
We kind of do work less, right? Because that’s the goal we want as business owners, at least for me, and I know, it’s for you. I want to put a product out there that everybody loves and makes money but makes money with minimal effort.
Pete Newsome 36:34
Yeah. So can we I mean, look, I had in the message I give to my employees, or I’m not going to ask you to work more than 40 hours in a week.
Pete Newsome 36:42
But I don’t mind saying if you do, you’re going to be more successful. Yeah, of course, I can’t, you know, I’m not going to be I can’t be disingenuous, but I also am not going to ask.
Pete Newsome 36:57
Yeah, this is not a requirement I’m going to make, and wouldn’t be popular and wouldn’t be good for retention.
Pete Newsome 37:02
People wouldn’t like it. I know that. But if you go person to person, and you look at their level of achievement, yes, some correlation therebetween and I don’t mean inside, anything I’m directly associated with just in general, right? You know, I get Yeah. Elon Musk is a registered person in the world fact.
Pete Newsome 37:23
Elon Musk? outworks. Almost everyone I’ve ever heard of fact, right? So coincidence. Now, would he be the richest person in the world? If he worked 40 hours a week, on average, whatever he was doing? Not even close?
Ricky Baez 37:38
Yeah. I, I’m with you. 100%.
Pete Newsome 37:42
Now you could argue and probably be right, that he may be, you know, have a happier life. He may have better, healthier relationships.
Pete Newsome 37:50
All that may be true. I’m just specifically talking about success at work, which isn’t necessarily leading to a happy life outside of work.
Ricky Baez 38:03
So that’s a wolf with him. He’s found his passion. So I think he is happy. I don’t think he will be working as hard as he is right now. If he wasn’t passionate about what he was doing. Right.
Ricky Baez 38:11
So he’s first so to him. He’s not working. To us. It looks like it because we’re like, I don’t want to deal with whatever he’s dealing with. I mean, some of the money problems, he’s got a pretty okay. But it’s yes, you do have to put in that work.
Pete Newsome 38:24
So are the bosses back in charge? Ricky? That’s what we’re trying to figure out.
Ricky Baez 38:27
Are they I don’t? Yeah, let’s go back to that.
Pete Newsome 38:30
I think I think they I think it depends on the industry depends on the market. But generally speaking, I think the ship has sailed. And if you’re a company, that is going to require your employees to be on-site, just like even though I have these beliefs, I think that generally speaking, I’d like everyone to work more and achieve more.
Pete Newsome 39:00
I mean, right? But at the same time, not going to require Yeah, so do you want people in the office sharp? Do you have a good reason for that? Maybe. But if you start requiring it, that’s different. You’re limiting yourself. Just like if I said, Hey, everyone, do you have to work eight to eight?
Ricky Baez 39:19
I mean, we win a lot more deals.
Pete Newsome 39:21
But I don’t know that I might be alone.
Ricky Baez 39:26
You’ll be alone and they’ll need your services because that vet turnover is gonna be grand. It’s gonna be grand. So yeah, okay. Did we beat this one to death? Also?
Pete Newsome 39:37
No, no, because I can stand up a path and my old old man walking uphill both ways to and from school.
Ricky Baez 39:48
In the snowstorm and I’m getting ready to tell my kid that story.
Pete Newsome 39:55
Yeah, but, so we’ll get the productivity numbers for next week. Let’s see Let’s do that because I want to make sure that that’s, that’s on point.
Pete Newsome 40:04
And, look, it’s and these are. These are conversations that are taking place, you know, everywhere. And there is a balance.
Pete Newsome 40:14
And this is the last thing that I’ll say on it is between what would be best for the business?
Pete Newsome 40:20
From a production standpoint, and what would be best for the business from a retention and employee standpoint, because, but finding that balance, which I think is kind of what you were alluding to earlier, which is, how do you create a situation employees want to do it?
Pete Newsome 40:36
And you’re not asking, you know, like, hey, you know, and that’s what I’ve always wanted to create. And I can’t tell you that I’ve succeeded in doing so.
Pete Newsome 40:44
To the degree that I’d like where I never have to tell anyone, when to work that everyone intuitively figured that out for themselves, like, hey, I can cut out early today or I need to stay late today. To me.
Pete Newsome 40:56
That’s because right now, I may work crazy hours, and sometimes I do but other times, oh, today I’m going to leave a little earlier than I I’m gonna leave before five to see my son’s basketball game. I’m not going to feel bad about that, because I was working earlier this morning, I’m going to do what I need to do this weekend.
Pete Newsome 41:18
So that’s how I’d like it to always be and that’s easier said than done.
Ricky Baez 41:22
It is easier said than done. But you know what? It’s you’re doing it in the office right now therapies. So I’ll say it right, because the four corner resource with organization, these employees, they have an option, I can either work from the office, those resources are there.
Ricky Baez 41:38
The key is flexibility. If you give your employees flexibility, they have more time and more attitude to work on your goals. That’s what you got to do.
Pete Newsome 41:49
And we will continue to try to do the best we can at that and prove every step of the way. So alright. Next week, Ricky Hire Calling. Have a great weekend and everyone thanks for listening. Have a good one, folks. Good night.
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