In episode 5, Pete and Ricky answer questions from Hire Calling’s audience!
Job search questions answered
1. Is this a good time to look for a job?
2. I’ve applied to a lot of jobs. But I don’t hear back. What should I do?
3. My employer is requiring vaccinations, but it’s not something I want to do. What are my options?
• Ways to Stand Out When Applying For a Job
• How To Ask An Employer The Tough Questions In A Job Interview
• How to Follow Up After a Job Interview
• How To Write a Perfect Thank You Email After An Interview
Ricky Baez 0:00
Hello, this is Ricky Baez you’re listening to the Hire Calling Podcast.
Pete Newsome 0:14
Welcome everyone and thank you for listening to the Hire Calling Podcast, your source for all things hiring, staffing, and recruiting. I’m Pete Newsome and joined by Ricky Baez. Ricky, how are you today?
Ricky Baez 0:24
I am doing great Pete how’s your week going so far?
Pete Newsome 0:27
So far so good and still early so anything can happen but it’s a good day. It’s college color day.
Ricky Baez 0:33
Pete Newsome 0:34
And so if you’re not watching then you wouldn’t know this but we’re dressed representing our schools. I’ve got my FSU colors on and Ricky has his Rollins flag in the background, so we are doing our part.
Ricky Baez 0:49
That is right, go Tar Heels. Rollins College. For those of you who do not know everybody knows FSU. Not everybody knows Rollins College. It’s an old school here in Winter Park, Florida. I don’t know if you knew this or not Pete. A famous alumnus, Mr. Rogers went to Rollins College. Yeah, Mr. Who?
Pete Newsome 1:08
Ricky Baez 1:10
Is that his first name? I don’t know. I’ve always known as Mr.
Pete Newsome 1:14
Oh, well if you thought Mr. was his first, I mean, that can happen but no Fred. Okay, now I’m going to question it, but I’m 99% sure it’s Fred Rogers. Yeah, that’s who it is.
Ricky Baez 1:25
Yeah, well, he’s an alumni. It’s a Rollins College is regarded as a Harvard at the South. They got a really good business school. But yeah, I love it there. It’s a beautiful, beautiful campus, man, but you can’t beat FSU though. I’ve been up there a couple of times for a game and it’s getting too old for those games, man.
Pete Newsome 1:43
You can’t be too old for those games. That’s not a thing. What does that even mean, you’re too old for the games?
Ricky Baez 1:48
I don’t know, last time I went, I want to say about five years ago. I went up to Tallahassee for a game, a buddy of mine got tickets and I don’t know after tailgating from you know from like 10 am until right before the game starts, I just wanted a nap.
Pete Newsome 1:48
You’re too old to party before and after the game so you’re not too old for the game?
Ricky Baez 2:07
No, no the game I’m there but the party. I just want to nap before the game starts and right after and also, it’s tricky, folks. We will get to the podcast. That same friend who’s a really big FSU fan. He and I served together in the military. He was working over in Utah and he got tickets and I flew out there to see FSU play BYU, bringing young.
Pete Newsome 2:32
Oh no kidding. Very cool.
Ricky Baez 2:33
Oh good, it was such an amazing experience. Beautiful, beautiful stadium right by the mountains. Man. I had a blast. Really had a blast.
Pete Newsome 2:41
College football, there’s nothing like it and my son was on the team last year at FSU, my daughter and son. My older two go there now and my wife and I met at FSU. My kids are actually fourth-generation Seminoles. My grandmother, if you can believe it went to Florida State College for Women. So yeah, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard the joke about FSU being a girl school.
Ricky Baez 3:02
No, I never have.
Pete Newsome 3:03
It quite literally was a girl school and my grandmother graduated from there in 1935 I believe. And so, my kids are very rare fourth-generation Seminoles.
Ricky Baez 3:14
Wow. That is awesome. I would love to have some history like that hopefully in about you know 50-80 years you know my grandkids would talk about how their grandfather was at Rollins talking about Mr. Rogers and questioning whether his name was Fred or not.
Pete Newsome 3:32
Never ever questioning beyond mister.
Ricky Baez 3:35
I took it for what it was worth so.
Pete Newsome 3:38
Well cool. So, we had fun this morning, we had the whole company on zoom I’m not even sure it is that college colors day. Hayley, who does marketing for us, just said that it was, and no one thought to question her so we all wore on our college colors today and put backgrounds together that was it.
Ricky Baez 3:56
We did it for the picture right because we wanted to take the picture and everybody’s going to see it over on LinkedIn. It is going to be on LinkedIn later on in the week. So, we did it for the picture. You’re right nobody questioned it, but it was still fun. I like to see where everybody’s from.
Pete Newsome 4:11
Aren’t you supposed to say you did it for the gram? Is it that, you do it for the gram? Or has that already passed, like is that make me dated? An old guy by saying that.
Ricky Baez 4:21
I’m willing to pay somebody up to 20 bucks an hour so they can help me with this new terminology these kids have today. And I never thought I would ever utter that sentence right there. Yeah, never thought.
Pete Newsome 4:34
You are too old for football games then.
Ricky Baez 4:36
Yes, I am. I’m not too old for barbecue and tailgating. That is fun. That is that’s why I need a nap afterward.
Pete Newsome 4:42
That’s your answer. You party early, take a nap during the game, and then you’ll be able to rebound after I think that’s your ticket.
Ricky Baez 4:50
That’s right, we got this. We got this. Awesome.
Pete Newsome 4:52
Alright, so today though, in addition to the college colors, we’re talking about, we’re going to do some Q&A. We threatened to do it, we promised to do it. So now we actually have to do it.
Ricky Baez 5:03
Did you just say threatened?
Pete Newsome 5:05
Ricky Baez 5:06
Got it. We threatened people with Q&A.
Pete Newsome 5:10
But we had some questions come in that are timely, we picked them out that are timely, and we really would like more so we’ll say at the end, but please email us at email@example.com, you can get there through our website as well. 4cornerresources.com. We would love to hear from you. Because this is going to be kind of fun because Ricky doesn’t know what the questions are. So, we’re going to play put Ricky on the spot a little bit today.
Ricky Baez 5:34
I love it, it’s okay.
Pete Newsome 5:37
Let’s get right to it.
Ricky Baez 5:38
Pete Newsome 5:39
And this one, this one is just, this is a layup. Is this a good time to look for a job?
Ricky Baez 5:46
Is this a good time to look for a job? You know what, let me start off answering it like this, Pete. I’m sure everybody. Well, you know, you and I are both in Orlando, Florida. So, it’s we know, Florida, you’re more free to go to different places than other states. So, when I drive around, especially today, you know, it’s after our kickoff meeting earlier today. And then I came back home to record this. You know, I’m making some stops along the way.
Ricky Baez 6:14
And I’m noticing that there are way more wanted signs now than what they were. It’s last year, there are just more wanted signs. And that tells me and also, if you’re in the service industry, or if you’re a patron of the service industry, you’ll see that customer service times are taken a lot longer. It’s because they are short-staffed. So that tells me that the job market is hot. The question is, is it hot with the particular jobs you want? So that’s the question.
Ricky Baez 6:46
So, whoever asked that question that would like to know what they’re looking for. And they lead me to believe that they’re currently working right now. Because if they’re looking, because if they’re not working right now, I don’t know what they’re doing that they say now’s the time to look for a job.
Pete Newsome 7:01
And the answer is definitively yes, always.
Ricky Baez 7:04
That’s right. So, so yeah. So, from my point of view, it’s absolutely, you just have to take a look at what’s out there. And if it fits in with your life today in this post COVID environment.
Pete Newsome 7:18
So, from a staffing perspective, we have a lot of visibility into what’s happening in the market, of course, that goes without saying, and I would answer from the standpoint of well, I’ll say from a candidate because they said, looking for a job not looking to hire, because I would answer that differently. But if you’re looking for a job right now, the answer is definitively yes. From any vertical that I’m familiar with, and that is everything that we staff for here, at 4 Corner, which is basically professional-level jobs from IT, finance, marketing, legal, you name it, if it’s in a corporate setting, we typically are involved.
Pete Newsome 8:00
And we are seeing something highly unusual happening right now, we were seeing salaries increase at a rapid pace. And this has been over the past couple of months. So, if you’ve been on social media at all, or you watch the news, we’ve all heard talk from both sides of the political aisle, we’ll say, about the government paying people not to work right. And lots of people have strong opinions on that. And I don’t really have much of an opinion on that, because I don’t think the folks, that the positions that we see open, you know, are at a trade-off where someone would take government money not to work, I don’t think that’s what’s driving this at all.
Pete Newsome 8:45
We’re talking senior-level positions, or positions that require degrees, 10 plus years in the workforce. These are not, you know, entry-level jobs that we’re talking about where someone would be willing to take any kind of unemployment pay off by choice, right, to not work. And we see the openings as being a real challenge in the marketplace right now for employers. And so, by saying that, I’m also saying it’s a great time to look for a job if you’re a candidate, no better time than at any other that I’m familiar with, in the time of my professional career, and that’s a pretty big statement, considering we’ve now dated ourselves on how long we’ve been out in the market.
Pete Newsome 9:31
The last jobs report that came out by the federal government showed that there are over 10 million job openings right now. And if you look at how many are historically open, let’s just say over the last decade. Now, this isn’t the most scientific number, but it’s put in the ballpark. It averages around. We average around 6 million job openings typically. So, we have significantly more job openings in the market usually has to contend with.
Pete Newsome 9:58
And so, what we’re seeing right now is companies having to be very aggressive with what they’re offering in terms of salary and perks and benefits. There is a big competition right now for talent out there. Now, that makes it challenging if you’re an employer, challenging if you’re a third-party recruiting organization, like 4 Corner Resources, but great if you’re a candidate.
Ricky Baez 10:18
Pete Newsome 10:19
The world is your oyster right now. So, I’ll say definitively despite anything you may have seen on the news, anything you may read on social media, I would love to have that debate or discussion if anyone says that companies aren’t hiring right now, or the jobs are at a premium, I would tell you, it’s the opposite.
Ricky Baez 10:37
Pete Newsome 10:38
Employers, employees are at a premium right now. And so, it’s a great time to look for a job and get out there quickly. And start if you’re not already doing that, if you’re not employed, if you are employed, you know, I’ll go just a little further to say, be a little careful. There are things being offered right now that I believe are temporary in nature. Companies are reacting to, you know, it’s a supply and demand problem right now, the demand to have employees, to have staff, outweighs the supply, right.
Pete Newsome 11:15
So, in market conditions like that, wages need to go up, you have to meet a supply somehow, or attract what should be your supply normally. And we’re seeing a lot of what I consider to be unnatural acts happening right now. So, don’t leave a job that you’re otherwise happy with. That provides the kind of growth opportunities you would want, you know, a culture you like, an environment you like, a team that you like, a manager that you like, just to chase a couple of bucks, right now, because that job may not be there, once things normalize.
Pete Newsome 11:52
Now, I have no way to predict the future or don’t have a crystal ball. But I see these changes of such a nature that companies are going to pull back, you know, at some point, and they’re filling a need, they have to, we’re recommending to clients to make cases, they have to raise the rates to have the job filled or be content to not fill it.
Pete Newsome 12:16
But I don’t know how sustainable some of this is. And so just be a little cautious of, I would always recommend to employees who are otherwise happy, don’t chase dollars, go to your employer, let them know about the situation if you need to and say, you know, as we talked about our last podcast, people are pretty reasonable. So, I would always recommend having that conversation, expressing concern, if you see that you’re getting lots of calls, higher rates, higher salary offers, but don’t just chase the bucks. But yes, it’s a great time to look for a job.
Ricky Baez 12:49
That is an amazing point Pete because you’re right. You know, sometimes it’s when people, I don’t want to say stuck when people are in a position. They’ve been in that position for quite some time. And they think that there’s something better out there and they get, you know, just motivated by what they’re offering. Absolutely, do your research and make sure that that is something that’s sustainable, that it’s not something that’s going to expire in 90 days or something like that.
Ricky Baez 13:12
But more importantly, whatever you are hearing out there, there’s nothing wrong with having a conversation with your current leadership. Now, I say that with a little Asterix, right? Because if the current leadership is the reason you’re looking, right, I don’t know if that’s why you do want to have that conversation, right? But it’s, yeah, right. But outside of that, I find it better when an employee comes to me, and they’re like, look, here’s what’s happening out there, A, B, and C, I want to reevaluate my skill set here. And I love to have those conversations with my employees.
Ricky Baez 13:46
Because, you know, number one, you should have that relationship number one, number two, it gives you the HR leader, the business leader, a really inside scoop above and beyond what you’re listening to these companies and these news media’s put out there. This is your employee, your agent telling you, this is what I’m getting out there. And it would behoove you to listen to that conversation and see what you can do. But, man, that market is insanely hot right now. It really is an amazing time.
Pete Newsome 14:12
I’ll tell you. I wasn’t planning to talk about this. today. No, I’m the one who knew what the questions are. And I didn’t know what direction we’d take it in necessarily. But I think it’s worth addressing if you’re an employee and you’re thinking of leaving and you’re leaving for reasons that are of such a nature where it has nothing to do with your manager, has nothing to do with your team, the work, the future, the environment.
Pete Newsome 14:40
But it really is something like a big improvement in compensation, or perhaps the ability to work virtually instead of in the office now that a lot of companies can’t be flexible either of those, but maybe they can be and it’s worthy of a conversation you know, benefits, perks, all these things that companies will use to attract employees and they’re real. But give your employer a chance.
Ricky Baez 15:09
Pete Newsome 15:10
Yeah, I think and I say that not only from the staffing perspective but also as a business owner. We see some folks who are great who leave our organization at times, and I wish we’d had the option to have a conversation first, right? If we knew that they were considering doing it, maybe we can change something, maybe we can’t, depending on the situation. But I’d always want to try, I’d always want to have that conversation. And there’s no penalty for having that conversation. And, you know, yeah, I don’t think it happens often enough. And that’s what you were saying?
Ricky Baez 15:50
Correct. Yeah, it doesn’t happen often enough. And it would be nice if, you know, people just had that comfort level, and bring it up. And I understand some people are really uncomfortable in having those, especially talking about money and asking for something, because they’re afraid of rejection. Let me tell you, the questions you don’t ask 100% of the time, it’s going to be right.
Ricky Baez 16:19
If you ask, you increase those chances. So just let’s sit down. Let’s have that conversation. And you never know what might come out of it. You know, just give your current employer that opportunity. But maybe yeah, there are other opportunities out there. And maybe there are some things that can happen where you currently are right now, that your future employer, for that matter, may not be able to provide. You never know.
Pete Newsome 16:45
Well, we know, definitively we know that the grass often is not greener.
Ricky Baez 16:50
Pete Newsome 16:51
I mean that is just the given. Do you think that the conversations may not happen because of fear of rejection, as you just said, or fear of, you know, being punished for it? Right, you know, some sort of negativity that comes out of it. I don’t know why they don’t happen more often. You know, it’s like you said from both a staffing professional’s perspective, as well, as a business owner’s perspective, I’ll tell you, I wish they did. Because I think in a lot of cases, you know, when I look back, some things are, you know, some differences are irreconcilable.
Ricky Baez 17:32
Pete Newsome 17:33
That’s why it’s a phrase, but many are not. Many are just a matter of having a conversation, open communication, sharing thoughts and feelings. Now you don’t want to go to that well, too often. Right? Yeah. You have to be willing to leave or willing to stay if the answer is not what you want as an employee. But I don’t see a penalty for having the conversation in the appropriate way at the appropriate time. Do you think it depends on the organization with that? I mean, why do you think those conversations don’t happen more often?
Ricky Baez 18:09
And I’m speaking from a place of experience here because I used to be that guy. I used to be that guy who I hated having conversations about pay with my manager or anybody. Now that was back about 15 years ago, it took me about four years to kind of get over that. Right. I think, from personal experience Pete, I think it’s got to be more about the awkwardness of that conversation. Because not everybody is comfortable with it. So, I’m here to tell people that yes, it’s awkward, yes, it’s uncomfortable.
Ricky Baez 18:38
But at some point, whatever you’re comfortable with right now, it started with being uncomfortable. So, start having those conversations now, practice having those conversations right now, because I know a lot of people out there, especially when it comes, I know this is not part of it, but this kind of relates. When somebody gets offered a position. And we’re talking about compensation. And you as a candidate who just got hired or offered, give you a number that was lower than what you thought.
Ricky Baez 19:10
But you dreading having that conversation and going back and forth to see if you can get more, that is so uncomfortable. People leave money on the table. They do. So, it really is about being comfortable having that conversation, and Pete it’s up to us too to create the environment where people are comfortable to come over and talk to us. Or you know, so I think it’s a really good idea to first connect with your leader, have that conversation but take a look at yourself.
Ricky Baez 19:37
Take a look in the mirror, candidate. Take a look in the mirror to see what is it that you love about the organization? What is it that some areas of opportunities and what are you willing to forgo or keep? You’re never going to find that 100% perfect job, for the 90% of your life there’s going to be 10% you don’t like but you have to be okay with, in any organization. So you really do have to take a self-assessment of your skill set, what you’re willing to do and what you are willing to, I hate to use this word, tolerate.
Ricky Baez 20:06
I don’t want to say that right. But I think, you know what, Pete and I’ll say this, and I’ll stop. Chris Rock said it best. Chris Rock did a comedy routine about 15 years ago. That was awesome.
Pete Newsome 20:17
This is a safer work show. So, before you.
Ricky Baez 20:19
But yes, I got you.
Pete Newsome 20:21
Okay, because I’m a Chris Rock fan but.
Ricky Baez 20:24
So no, me too. So, I know. This is PG not even 13. He said, you know, when you love somebody or you love something, you can’t just love the best you have to love what’s worse as well. And you have to be okay with it. So, when you put a toast into the toaster, that toast comes out nice and perfect. You got to love the crumbs, the bottom of that toast, the crumbs that collect at the very bottom overall.
Ricky Baez 20:48
So as somebody who’s looking for another job, take a step back and take a look at where you’re currently at, what you appreciate, what messes with your career trajectory, what doesn’t. Then let’s start having that conversation with the leader. You’d be surprised what comes out of it.
Pete Newsome 21:03
Chris Rock said that Ricky?
Ricky Baez 21:07
No, he didn’t say that last part. I threw that in there.
Pete Newsome 21:10
Which part of that do you attribute to Chris Rock, because I did not see that stand up?
Ricky Baez 21:16
The toaster, the toaster part. When he talks about loving the toast and the crumbs. Now he said it in a much rated-R version. I’m trying to clean it up for the show. But that’s how he said it. It was on his HBO special, a long time ago. Oh, man, I missed that one up.
Pete Newsome 21:32
We will choose Chris Rock as the point to move on from.
Ricky Baez 21:35
Pete Newsome 21:35
Yes, it’s a good time to look for a job. Always if you need one and don’t have one. But just be cautious of what may be temporary in nature out there due to the market conditions. That’s all. So, let’s go on to the next one.
Ricky Baez 21:54
Pete Newsome 21:55
All right. Question two. I’ve applied for a lot of jobs. But I don’t hear back. I haven’t heard back. What should I do?
Ricky Baez 22:03
From the recruiter?
Pete Newsome 22:05
Well, this is just a question, man. This is a question from the internet. So, let’s say I’ve applied to a lot of jobs. But I don’t hear back. I’m assuming that’s from a candidate. Right? Who has been applying for jobs? Right. So we know that, what are they hearing? Well, I mean, I think most times someone applies to a job.
Pete Newsome 22:23
Now I’m assuming they’re not working with a third party like 4 Corner because they’re going to be engaged already with the candidate, or with the recruiter, or if they’ve applied to one of our jobs, maybe a company like ours, a third party or direct employer, you haven’t heard back. I think that’s what they’re looking to do. What do I do to get my resume pulled out from the pile? Do you have any advice?
Ricky Baez 22:47
Hmm, I’m still thinking about not hearing back because as somebody who used to apply and being frustrated from not hearing back, I feel that question, Pete. I definitely do feel it. So let me answer this from a candidate’s perspective. Right. Candidate, I’m talking to you now, if you’re out there, right, whoever asked this question, it’s a really good question. And here’s why.
Ricky Baez 23:13
Please put yourself in the position of the recruiter, please put yourself in the position of recruiting manager, when they have a requisition to fill, I would love to sit here and tell you that a recruiting manager has 45 minutes to look at one resume and make the proper assessments on whether this is the perfect candidate to pass on for the hiring authority to then interview, you know, pass that pre-screen. The reality is it doesn’t really work that way. They have maybe five requisitions, maybe 100 resume applications, each requisition, and they have to make a really good assessment on looking at a resume on whether they can go on to the next step or not.
Ricky Baez 23:52
It takes six to nine seconds to make an impression, right? Six to nine seconds. So, from a recruiter’s perspective, I personally believe that it’s up. It’s I understand, actually, I take the believe part back, I understand why maybe there isn’t any type of communication if you don’t move on to the next step. But this should be right because we should really give that candidate that GPS on what they can expect.
Ricky Baez 24:21
That said, I’ve explained that position from the recruiter’s point of view, from the candidate’s point of view, you’ve got to do everything in your power to get that resume in front of that recruiter. How do you do that? LinkedIn is amazing. It really is amazing. Yes, it’s a paid service, but you can get some really cool features when it’s free. And the suggestion that I make to all the candidates out there is as soon as you apply, as soon as you apply, you make sure that you take note of that requisition number or the job ID number.
Ricky Baez 24:55
The company, obviously, the position you apply for after you apply, do a little homework, go on LinkedIn. How we talked about two episodes ago, when we talked about researching the organization on LinkedIn and figuring out who you’re going to interview with, figure out who’s recruiting for that position, and send them an email and say, Hey, I saw this position online, and I applied for it. Here’s the job number. Here’s my resume for your review, I applied for it online already, please let me know if we can have a 5-minute conversation to talk about this position. If you’re not the right person to talk to, please point me to the right person to who I can talk to.
Pete Newsome 25:35
So, I love all of that with one exception.
Ricky Baez 25:38
Pete Newsome 25:38
I would call them, try calling them and then send the email.
Ricky Baez 25:42
Okay, got it.
Pete Newsome 25:43
Call first, right, be a live voice to them. In fact, my last job prior to 4 Corner, with Avaya, as I did exactly that, I applied. I assumed it was going into a big stack. I didn’t have any personal connections there. I looked up the location of the job, asked who was hiring, and ended up, you know, getting my resume on top of the pile from that, and I don’t know that I ever would have heard from them otherwise, because I just would have been yet another resume.
Pete Newsome 26:15
But I love the tip. And I think it’s a really good one. Take the extra step is what we’re talking about, I think and, you know if you just look at how easy it’s become to apply, it starts to answer the question as to why more applicants don’t receive feedback. Because the online sites while extremely valuable to the recruiting process has taken the personalization out of it and make it very simple to apply. If it’s easy to apply, then it’s easy for everyone to apply. So, if you can go on Career Builder or LinkedIn or Indeed or Monster or Zip Recruiter or Dice or any of these websites, and rapidly click through and apply without actually being qualified.
Pete Newsome 27:04
Now, this is a pretty big caveat too to this, then don’t expect a reply, you shouldn’t, because if you don’t meet the criteria, as spelled out in the job description, then why should anyone have to reply to you? I would say you’re disingenuous coming in, now that’s a little harsh.
Ricky Baez 27:24
Pete Newsome 27:25
Right, I get that. But it shows that you’re disregarding the information upfront. So, we’ve talked quite a bit on the last two podcasts about your resume and how it needs to represent what you’ve actually achieved, how you answered questions in an interview, consistent with what you’ve actually been able to do, and achieve being honest, being you know, fourth right?
Pete Newsome 27:52
Well, if you’re applying to a job that requires a specific degree and 10 years of experience in an area, and you don’t have that degree or any degree at all perhaps and no experience in that area, it’s not realistic to expect the other party to apply. In fact, you’re sending a pretty bad signal, whether you know it or not, I mean, that’s the truth. Because there may be something else that you’re a good fit for. But they’re going to discount you pretty quickly as a whole because it’s very least they know you don’t follow instructions well.
Pete Newsome 28:25
You know, basic elementary level reading comprehension, and this is real talk. And it may not be favorable for candidates who are frustrated by applying. But the idea that you should just blindly submit your resume to a lot of places and expect results, it’s just not a good idea. We end up at times, you know seeing candidates reply to multiple ads of ours on the same day, job postings on our website. And sometimes they have nothing to do with each other.
Pete Newsome 28:59
Well, it just it tells you, it gives a pretty bad signal of the candidate coming in. So anyway, that’s a bit of a tangent, but be specific, because you can’t follow your advice if you’ve applied to 100 jobs in a day, you can’t pick up the phone and call them and track down all the contact information on LinkedIn which again is excellent advice. I mean, take that step, make that effort.
Pete Newsome 29:28
So, you won’t do it. So, then it just sorts of dilutes the entire process where you really want everything you do to be meaningful. And you know, it saves you a lot of time that way, right? It’s very time-consuming to try to track down information on people so you should only do it where you think you really have a good chance to get the job.
Ricky Baez 29:48
Or it’s one more bonus tip for that one, especially with LinkedIn. This is more proactive, right? So instead of going out, find the specific recruiters for positions you’ve applied for, plant seeds today that are going to grow for you and be valuable for you in the future. Here’s what I mean. If you’re looking for a job, especially in the HR space, what I like to do, I tell all my students, Pete, be active on LinkedIn, even if you’re happy with your job, be active on LinkedIn, share relevant articles, more importantly, put out content, whether it’s a white paper, whether it’s a podcast, whether it’s a blog, if you put out relevant content.
Ricky Baez 30:32
What’s going to happen, on a regular basis, what’s going to happen is you’re going to have a LinkedIn, that’s going to take that algorithm, whatever content you’re talking about, or pushing is going to put it in the face, or in the front page of every other LinkedIn candidate or LinkedIn person, i.e. a recruiter who is relevant to whatever you’re talking about. And if it’s there constantly, because Pete, you know right now, there are some people on LinkedIn that are always posting stuff that you know their name just by their posting. And if we saw their name come across our applicant tracking system later, and you’re like, Oh, my God, I know that person, boom, you’ve already made that connection.
Ricky Baez 31:12
So if you’re able, even if you’re happy with your job, right now, you never know what the future holds, put out content right now, share content right now, be active on LinkedIn because the more people see you as active, it’s like branding, right? So, they see your name in front of their face, especially if they see your application come across their desk, it will pay dividends for you.
Pete Newsome 31:34
Most people aren’t going to do that. Right? Do you agree?
Ricky Baez 31:40
Most of them won’t. But the ones that do.
Pete Newsome 31:42
Why do you think? I’ll say.
Ricky Baez 31:46
I think I know what you are going to say.
Pete Newsome 31:48
Everyone should because when you say relevant content, that assumes that they have relevant content to share, right? They have a certain level of knowledge experience, you know because it has to exist initially. But those that do, and I think you know, anyone who’s been in the workforce for a period of time, probably does, right? If they chose to do it, but most won’t do it. We know that, why do you think?
Ricky Baez 32:20
Honestly, from my point of view, I think most people don’t do it because they don’t see the value in it. And they don’t think it’s worth their time. Right? Why am I going to put this out there? Why am I going to talk about ADA? Why am I going to talk about FMLA? I mean, from my perspective, Pete, I could talk about that every day, because I’m one of those weird people who love HR.
Ricky Baez 32:39
And I love talking about those things and making them relevant. So, to me, if I’m in the HR space, and that’s something I love to talk about, especially with passion, and energy, people are going to receive that. So, if you’re not passionate about it, you don’t see the value in it and if you think it’s going to take too long, that’s how I think people don’t do it. I mean, is that what you thought?
Pete Newsome 33:02
I think it’s, you know, I think what you’re describing is apathy. Right? To some degree, yes. I think that lack of comprehension for what the result of it can be or appreciation for what the result could be. I also think there’s a big fear factor. And in putting information out there, you know, that because to some degree to make it, okay it has to be relevant, but it also has to be interesting.
Ricky Baez 33:30
Pete Newsome 33:31
To some audience. And often that requires some level of, I’ll say, controversy or opinion, right? If you take a stand on something, it could be challenged. And we live in a society right now, where it’s really hard to have a discussion on any topic, publicly, and often privately, because of the sensitivity.
Ricky Baez 33:59
That is a good point.
Pete Newsome 34:00
Now, you and I have had enough conversations off-camera, and we know each other well enough to say that you and I are not in this group, right? We can have a healthy debate on the topic and have different sides of perspectives, and not get upset. But, you know, for anyone who’s on Facebook, right, you see how quickly things escalate, how everything is politicized. And so, I think that fear of, you know, is all tied together.
Pete Newsome 34:29
I think it’s all, you know, part of the same category of why people are hesitant to share anything, because they’re going to be criticized, potentially, and I will say that you got to get over it. Right. That’s a long way to say you have to get over it. Now, you have to pick your battles, and you have to pick you to know where those battles take place, right, your battlefield, I guess.
Pete Newsome 34:54
So, I’m not recommending to anyone, nor are you I’m pretty sure that you make you know, political commentary on LinkedIn. But you also need to not shy away from potential, you know, disagreements. We put something up not too long ago on Bitcoin and we started giving it away, not giving it away, but giving it as an option to payouts in on our referral bonus or referral fee.
Pete Newsome 35:26
And it was interesting. I mean, just putting up a poll, right a poll, like an opinion poll, of what percentage of Bitcoin people would like to take. People had issues with that and like some innocent, a couple of cases like angrily it seems, right and which is bizarre to me. But yet, this is the world we’re in. But that’s okay. Guess what, it got a lot of views. It got a lot of interaction relative to something mundane, it wasn’t polarizing. I don’t know what that could be.
Pete Newsome 35:55
But you know so even though that fear is real, I think you stick your toe in the water, right? Start small, become comfortable with it, because it really is good advice. And I think it’s unfortunate that most will ignore it. And not do it. Because you’re limiting yourself.
Ricky Baez 36:17
Pete Newsome 36:18
In the process.
Ricky Baez 36:19
Yep, and look, all the tools are out there, you just have to be willing to put the time in and put that out there. But you are 100% spot on with that, Pete. It’s put things out there that you know, are going to help you later on, right, nothing controversial, nothing like that.
Ricky Baez 36:36
At the same time, I want to piggyback on something you just said, don’t shy away from differences of opinion, right? Show your skill set, on how you’re able to bring that conversation in and not attack the person. Right? Because I know as human beings, sometimes we go there, right, but just try to better understand the point of view they have.
Ricky Baez 36:56
If more people did that Pete, I don’t think we would have wars in the world. Right? If people tried more to understand the opposite point of view, literally genuinely trying to understand, I don’t think we will have all the conflicts we have today. I’ll leave it at that.
Pete Newsome 37:09
Yeah. So, it’s a little, it’s a little trick I’ve tried on my kids a few times, is to say argue the other person’s perspective.
Ricky Baez 37:15
Pete Newsome 37:18
On a debate, and, you know, putting yourself in the other person’s shoes. But, yeah, I mean, the only way you’re going to overcome the fear, as you referenced earlier, is to take the step and have the thing that becomes you know, fearful, become comfortable. And there’s no way to do that other than to address it head-on.
Ricky Baez 37:41
Pete Newsome 37:42
Okay, so back to the question though, man, do we stray?
Ricky Baez 37:46
Boy, we do.
Pete Newsome 37:47
So, you recommended reaching out via email, we kind of went over the top a little bit and said we agree that you should make a phone call as well if you can communicate through LinkedIn. Right? LinkedIn Messenger is a great way to do it, invite that person, let them know, create that familiarity that you mentioned, the name recognition. We talked about handwritten notes on our last podcast on something to do post-interview, do it then too. Send your resume in the mail, with the note, which very infrequently happens. I mean.
Ricky Baez 38:21
Pete Newsome 38:23
Very rare. And it will stand out. Your resume won’t be in a pile then because it’s probably going to be the only one mailed, you know, via hardcopy. So, you want to come out of the pile. Do it that way. Anything else on that? I have one more tip, but it’s a bit of a commercial, but I’ll make it quick.
Ricky Baez 38:44
No, actually, that was perfect, I think we drove that point home. And people really do understand what they need to do to be seen out there on social media.
Pete Newsome 38:54
So, my last tip then, the commercial if you will, and this isn’t about 4 Corner in particular, but it is about using a third-party recruiter is we have the ability to be aggressive on the candidate’s behalf in a way that the candidate can’t do directly. And we have the pipeline to the hiring manager, we can be persistent and aggressive where necessary with our calls and we’re asked to fill the job.
Pete Newsome 39:20
So, it’s appropriate that we’re very communicative in our approach with the hiring entity, whoever it is. So, we’re the candidates advocate in that regard in a way that the candidate can’t be on their own right, just being courteous and nor would I recommend to a candidate to be as aggressive as we are, right, in that and it’s not because it would come across as aggressive for them, for us, it’s just what we do, how we communicate right.
Pete Newsome 39:50
If a client asks us to fill a job, we take that responsibility very seriously and we promote and present our candidates, you know, in a way that is going to be noticed and not have them missed. And we’re typically only presenting one candidate per opening. So that’ll get you noticed. So, whether it’s 4 Corner or another third party, it will increase your chances of success. It just will, and the last tip, and then we can close and move on to the next question is, if you have some sort of connection into that company, find that person too.
Pete Newsome 40:30
So, look at friends, look at friends of friends, LinkedIn we’ve already talked about will help in that regard. But you know, let others help you. When you’re looking for a job. And you’ve applied somewhere, use your network. And if you don’t have one, start building it through LinkedIn sooner than later.
Ricky Baez 40:49
And by the way, you should always be building a network whether you need it right now or not. Always, yes.
Pete Newsome 40:58
No, it’s great advice. And we see it on LinkedIn, when we see candidates who have 50 connections, or 5000 connections, we can’t see it once they’re over 500. But the ones that don’t have many connections, you know, my thought is always you know, someone’s limiting themselves, you know, unnecessarily. Alright, so I think we have time for one question we have, we have a bunch more. So, we’re going to get to do this again soon. But I think we need, let’s do at least three.
Ricky Baez 41:29
Pete Newsome 41:30
This one is timely. My employer is requiring vaccinations, but it’s not something I want to do. What are my options? Okay, HR guy?
Ricky Baez 41:44
So that question came up, huh? Okay. Got it. Alright. So, here’s what I’m going to say. And I’m going to say this from the point of view of the state of Florida, right, because I’m not going to venture to guess that I know because look, federally, from that perspective, an employer can ask for vaccination and they can ask for proof.
Pete Newsome 42:11
Ask or require?
Ricky Baez 42:12
Oh, I’m sorry, require. They can require it as a condition of employment. Now, I say Florida, because I don’t know if other states have other areas that go more in-depth, but at the very least, in the state of Florida, they can require it. Now, here’s what you, as the employee, need to know what your rights are. Right?
Ricky Baez 42:33
Let me start off by saying this, Pete, I’m not an attorney. And this is not, and what I’m about to say should not be taken as legal advice. If you have any questions deeper than what I’m about to say, go to your HR or go seek a real legal professional, like an attorney, not me. Now, from an HR point of view, now that I got that out the way, from an HR point of view, if you have a condition, a medical condition that prevents you from taking that vaccine, the organization is required by law, to enter into what’s called a dynamic dialogue, to have a conversation with you about what kind of accommodations can be made. That is under the American Disabilities Act, also known as ADA.
Ricky Baez 43:17
And what the organization has to do is figure out a way, how to get to whatever objective they have, in a way that it still suffices your medical condition. So, I’ll give you a great example, Pete. If I’m a candidate, if I’m HR, I’m working with somebody who has said I cannot get this done, fine, let’s have a conversation. And they ask to see what’s a reasonable accommodation if the concern is that we don’t want to place this person in a situation where he or she might get infected by the virus or the other way around, then work from home, allow them to work from home.
Ricky Baez 43:59
So, if the job calls for it, right, if you’re a bus driver or a pilot, yeah, that’s not going to happen. But if you’re in a situation where you can work from home, that in itself is an acceptable, in general, an acceptable type of accommodation, religious too. So, there are some options out there that you can ask for. Absent those things. I want to say it’s you either would have a job or you don’t. And in the state of Florida, there have been some companies, a lot of companies actually, that are going that route. They’re requiring vaccines.
Ricky Baez 44:34
So, you just have to know what your rights are as an employee to see what you can do if you have a legitimate medical concern or religious concern and then use those avenues. Other than that, you have to make a choice.
Pete Newsome 44:45
Yeah, I think, you know, there’s a lot that we’re all learning right now, through COVID. About states’ rights versus what the federal government can mandate and it seems to be a moving target at times. And, you know, for us at 4 Corners, we continue to grow and do business in more states, we find out how unique the laws really are, by state and Florida being a right to work state first and having, you know, pretty straightforward tax laws and requirements for employers is a relatively easy state to operate from.
Pete Newsome 45:25
But as you work in California, in New York, which we do heavily in both, you realize how different it can really be. So, the point you made is great. Well, the first point of you know, we’re not giving legal advice is the first one. But the second one is, make sure that you find out what’s, you know, what the laws are in your particular state in this situation. Now, if you’re based there, you probably already know and have a pretty good idea.
Pete Newsome 45:56
But yeah, it’s an interesting time, in a number of areas right now, that being one where we’re seeing a shift in the market for that, yeah, we just talked about, this is a, you know, become a political issue, in many cases, a very sensitive one, a very passioned, you know, thing for a lot of people. And quite frankly, we’re not really used to that, you know, over the last, but, you know, at least, I’d say, three or four decades in the US of reacting to vaccinations, the way that we are.
Pete Newsome 46:34
And so, there’s a lot of learning that’s going on, I think, and companies are trying to find their way. And we see it among our clients, going down different paths there. We have clients who are requiring vaccinations for employees who are on site. And we’re seeing some that absolutely have no care to implement a policy about that at all. So, I think as the employee, look at your state, if you need to talk to an attorney ever because you’re unsure of what your options are.
Pete Newsome 47:11
I mean, I think that’s probably unnecessary in this case because you know, every example that I know of, the employer has that, right, where we’ve encountered these situations. And so, you know, that option always exists. For anything.
Ricky Baez 47:33
Anything pretty much.
Pete Newsome 47:35
Often that does happen, but I don’t think that’s necessarily what we would recommend, I think it’s understanding, you know, your employer’s perspective, like you said, seeing if there’s a workaround, if it’s something that’s really important to you, be prepared for it not to be. And that may be a case move on if it’s something you’re absolutely not going to consider doing. But look at all your options.
Pete Newsome 47:59
That would be, you know, you asked, the question was, what are my options? Well, ultimately, it’s about doing what’s right for you. And your employer is doing what’s right for them. And that’s the perspective they’re coming from, whether you agree or not. And I say that without knowing who the employee is, or who the employer is. I just think, you know, in a case like this, companies are doing what they think is best, individuals are doing what they think is best, sometimes they don’t align.
Ricky Baez 48:32
Pete Newsome 48:33
And that’s just going to happen.
Ricky Baez 48:36
So, I’ll say this, Pete, and in this one, I think, out of all the things, all the virtues you can practice, all the human emotions you can practice, the thing that you should be practicing the most is patience. It really is patience, because this is something, exactly how you said, this is something that I don’t think has been seen in ages and decades. Right.
Ricky Baez 48:59
So, everyone from I guess, the government on down, right, the government on down to a candidate are experiencing this in real-time, at the same time. So, if it looks like some policies go left, some policies go right, and when they land in the middle, it’s not that people are being indecisive, it’s that they tried to build this big ship and sailing in it at the same time.
Pete Newsome 49:28
That’s a great phrase, I’m going to steal that from you. Maybe claim it as my own. But yes, that’s.
Ricky Baez 49:33
Yeah, so there’s just a lot going on. And I know that if people are patient and giving organizations and officials and themselves some time to process this, and at some point, we’re good. I can’t wait for Pete to get to the point that we get to look back at this as a historical reference. And like, wow, that was an interesting time. I was just talking to my class that I just finished a few weeks ago, the same thing because I told them I, in hindsight, I’m jealous.
Ricky Baez 50:04
Because I would love to go through school now. With everything happening right now, I would love to go through school now. Because in the classroom setting, you can go ahead and put whatever scenario you want and play it out and see what other people’s points of view are without you landing in legal trouble. We don’t get that luxury. We don’t have that luxury. So, we have to make sure we’re right. 100% of the time. Where in class, you can demo, demo, demo, correct, demo, incorrect. So, I’m really jealous.
Pete Newsome 50:37
Maybe Rollins is different than a lot of colleges and universities, Ricky, because I don’t know that that freedom exists, as you describe it.
Ricky Baez 50:47
Oh, in my class, I do. I put scenarios out there. And I put my students to work on these scenarios based on what they have and what they’ve learned so far, right. And if they put, because we don’t do tests, we do presentations and case studies with real relevant issues that are happening right now. And one of the things I love what I do about teaching is the thing that I can’t stand the most Pete is when we start learning or teaching from a book that’s 40 years old. It’s irrelevant.
Pete Newsome 51:16
If a book is two years old right now it’s outdated, right?
Ricky Baez 51:19
Exactly, right. So, what I do is I take all the different theories that we’re supposed to learn from, and I show them how to put them in real-life applications. And I tell them, do the presentation here, how exactly would you do it at work. But remember, don’t be afraid to push the envelope a little bit. And then I can help you dissect it, I can help you run through it, to see what works and what doesn’t work.
Ricky Baez 51:44
Because in a presentation setting, something that I just saw in the newspaper just two days earlier. If they’re able to really put that theory into application, I’d rather do it in a place where they can make mistakes, learn from those mistakes, that way when they apply it to work the very next day, they got it. And they’re 100% spot on. So that’s how I do it at Rollins.
Pete Newsome 52:04
Alright, kids. Go to Rollins if you weren’t already because that sounds like the place to be.
Ricky Baez 52:11
I love it.
Pete Newsome 52:12
Well, good. Well, that’s a perfect way to end on college colors day. A little Rollins talk.
Ricky Baez 52:17
There you go. Yeah.
Pete Newsome 52:18
And I’m excited because FSU is playing Notre Dame in football in six days. And you know, Oh, boy. Let’s see what happens there. So, it’s a great way to kick off the season. So, we only got to three questions, we will have to come back and do this in the next two weeks, probably again, because we have a long list and it’s growing.
Pete Newsome 52:40
So, we’re on all the major platforms. We’re on Spotify, we’re on iTunes, please review us, please give us a five-star review if you do but email us any comments or questions. We’d love to be able to address them. Get specific, challenge us, if it’s too hard, I’ll throw it to Ricky and let him take the blame for it from an HR standpoint.
Ricky Baez 53:02
Pete Newsome 53:04
But we really do want to be your source for all things hiring, staffing, and recruiting and target whether you’re a hiring manager, an HR professional, a recruiter, or of course a candidate, and we want to provide content that’s relevant and helpful to you. So, hit us up anytime. And thank you for listening today.
Ricky Baez 53:26
Roger that, folks. Thank you very much for listening. Goodbye from Pete. Goodbye from me. Drive safe. Goodnight.
Pete Newsome 53:32
Bye for now.
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