Workplace Predictions For 2022

Episode 28


Episode overview

In this episode of the Hire Calling Podcast, Pete Newsome and Ricky Baez kick off 2022 with some workforce predictions! Together they discuss the positive and negative impacts of each prediction and share a wish for this new year!

Pete and Ricky also cover the latest workplace data, starting with the fact that 4.5 million people resigned from their jobs in the past year. So what does this mean for hiring in 2022? At first, businesses are going to struggle when it comes to attracting and retaining exceptional talent, however, with a few adjustments, employers can turn that around.

Although the conversation at times can be grim, these two hosts try to shine a light on things by adding some humor! From Carnac the Magnificant to an 8 year old playing Roblox, tune in to all the commotion happening in the 2022 staffing industry.  

60 minutes

View transcript

  1. Depending on the Supreme Court’s decision regarding vaccine mandates, the state of the economy may get worse before it gets better. (update: the supreme court ruled against companies imposing the vaccine mandate, except for those in the healthcare industry)
  2. The gig economy is going to grow and expand. This will provide maximum flexibility and allow companies to leverage skilled workers in a way that wasn’t possible in a traditional work setting. 
  3. There will be a shift from a predomintely remote workforce to a hybrid or a full-time in the office workforce. Companies want to begin to pull employees back into the office so they do not lose the culture and training aspect that can be lost working remotely.
  4. Staffing is going to become more strategic than it has been in recent history. The employer and employee relationship will become healthier and more personable.

Additional resources

Pete Newsome

About Pete Newsome

Pete Newsome is the president of 4 Corner Resources, the nationally acclaimed staffing and recruiting firm he founded in 2005. His mission back then was the same as it is today: to do business in a personal way, while building an organization with boundless opportunities for ingenuity and advancement. When not managing 4 Corner’s growth or spending time with his family of six, you can find Pete sharing his sales and business expertise through public speaking, writing, and as the host of the Hire Calling podcast.

Ricky Baez

About Rick Baez

Efrain “Ricky” Baez Jr. is a published human resources professional specializing in strategically aligning HR competencies to business goals with a down to earth, common sense approach. Ricky is a four- year veteran of the United States Marine Corps and holds a Masters degree in Human Resources (MHR) from Rollins College and an SPHR certification from the Human Resources Certification Institute. Ricky is also a faculty member for the Master of Human Resources program at Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida.

Transcript

Pete Newsome  00:00
You’re listening to the Hire Calling Podcast. On today’s episode, we’re going to talk about some predictions for the new year. Will they come true? Listen and find out. Let’s go! 

Pete Newsome  00:16
Welcome everyone, and thank you for listening to the Hire Calling Podcast. I’m Pete Newsome, and I am back in 2022 with Ricky Baez, Ricky, how are you?

Ricky Baez  00:24
I am ecstatic for 2022.

Pete Newsome  00:29
Are you?

Pete Newsome  00:30
Good!

Ricky Baez  00:30
No, that was just me. Just being facetious. I’m kidding, I’m ecstatic. It’s just that 2021 was a challenge. I’m sure it was a challenge for you as well. No more or less of a challenge than 2021. Other than 2020, I’m just hoping 2022 just brings just a little bit more joy than last year.

Pete Newsome  00:55
We’re still here. That’s a positive, right? Things may look a little shaky right now as we look around, but, you know, I’m optimistic that we’re going to have a good year. And we’re going to get on the other side of some of the things that have been bad.

Pete Newsome  01:13
And today, I wanted to talk about four predictions that I have for the year that you have not heard yet. So you get to respond to those live as well, as a wish for the year. A New Year’s wish, if you will.

Ricky Baez  01:26
Oh, wow. Okay, so we got four predictions. And I feel like you need that old Johnny Carson hat. Remember the old Johnny Carson hat where he had that hat on? Did he use to have an envelope?

Ricky Baez  01:40
Yeah.

Ricky Baez  01:41
I feel like we need one of those.

Pete Newsome  01:43
Well, it turns out, I do have an envelope. But it’s an American Express Bill.

Ricky Baez  01:47
Nobody wants that.

Pete Newsome  01:50
That’s for later.

Ricky Baez  01:52
Meanwhile, half the audience is googling really quick, who’s Johnny Carson? Because he was an awesome late night host from back in the day, look him up.

Pete Newsome  02:01
But what did he call Carnac?

Ricky Baez  02:04
Is that what it was?

Pete Newsome  02:05
Yes, that was Carnac guys. So I wish I had prepared for Carnac type questions with this, but we’re gonna have to go without that for today, next time.

Ricky Baez  02:16
Roger that, that works.

Pete Newsome  02:17
Next time we’ll do it. But if we talk about the labor market, what’s happening with employees constantly trying to prepare, both for our clients as well as the candidates that we work with. And there are a lot of moving parts right now.

Pete Newsome  02:36
So as I’ve thought quite a bit about the upcoming year, and how we’re going to be best positioned to handle it. I’ve had quite a few thoughts on this.

Pete Newsome  02:45
And so I thought it would be fun to kick off the new year with some predictions that everyone can hold me accountable for if I get wrong. So this can be a permanent record for that. But I’m feeling pretty confident. Unfortunately, they’re all not great.

Ricky Baez  03:01
Okay.

Pete Newsome  03:03
So let’s go ahead and start with the bad. And that is simply that things are going to get worse before they get better. And I’ll tell you what I mean by that. Well, we’re in the first week of January. This Friday, the Supreme Court of the United States is going to be meeting to determine whether the employer vaccine mandate that the White House has put out, I think they put out back in late September if I’m not mistaken.

Ricky Baez  03:34
November, yep.

Pete Newsome  03:35
Was it November? Okay, I thought that was farther. That is going to be either upheld, meaning as of Monday, every employer in the US who has more than 100 employees will have to start implementing a plan to ensure that all of their employees are vaccinated or tested each week. And if not, they’re going to be subject to a very large fine.

Pete Newsome  04:05
We don’t know what’s going to happen with the Supreme Court. But we as employers, in certainly an employer in the staffing industry, we’re kind of seeing it from both sides right now.

Pete Newsome  04:18
This could be a really bad thing for the labor market and ultimately for the economy. And so I think there is a very good chance that it’s going to happen. But before I get into why I think things are going to get worse, even if that doesn’t happen.

Pete Newsome  04:34
If the Supreme Court says that the mandate is not constitutional, that would be a win for employers and certainly a win for the staffing industry. But we don’t know yet. So we’re sort of in limbo right now. What’s your thought on that?

Ricky Baez  04:49
We are and actually, I do want to correct myself I’m the White House did put that out in September. They didn’t actually put the actual plan in place until November. That’s what it was.

Pete Newsome  04:59
Okay.

Ricky Baez  05:00
So look, this is a tough one. It’s even really tough for business leaders and is tough for HR professionals, especially in Florida, where everything is happening. So I agree with you, I think that this is going to be a big issue. Especially now I think in November, I just saw the numbers, that 4.5 million people resigned.

Ricky Baez  05:27
That number just keeps creeping up and creeping up. So labor continues to be an issue. And with all this happening, it just throws such a big cog in the machine. And the machine, I’m talking about the employer, the American employer. So I really think it’s going to get worse before it gets better.

Ricky Baez  05:48
If I can add something to that Pete because its employers are left in the middle, right? While some states do what they want to do, and the federal government does this, and they keep fighting, they keep doing all those things. Who’s left in the middle is us and the employees.

Ricky Baez  06:03
So I think that the hat that business leaders and HR leaders need to put on to make sure that they’re doing the right thing is to over communicate to the employees in a way that they don’t see that it becomes political at work.

Pete Newsome  06:20
So right, I don’t want to be crude. Let’s call it an excretion contest?

Ricky Baez  06:28
Nice! Yeah, I like that.

Pete Newsome  06:33
A bodily fluid contest, I don’t know. Between the federal government and a lot of the states, something we’re not used to and we should not have to deal with as employers who just want to go about our business, just want to take care of our employees and do the right thing by them. And not have to wade through that disagreement. And especially when this is rushing at us very quickly.

Pete Newsome  07:01
We don’t know as of today, Wednesday? What’s today?

Ricky Baez  07:06
The fifth.

Pete Newsome  07:07
Yeah. And on the seventh, the Supreme Court is rolling. And by Monday, the 10th, we have to act on this. I think that the statistics are that the American workforce has, let’s say is 160 million strong. And we know that 30% of Americans, I think roughly are unvaccinated right now, I mean, just using round numbers.

Pete Newsome  07:38
What I don’t know off the top of my head is how many of the 160 million work for employers with 100 or more employees. But even if you whittle that down to the best case scenario, it’s going to be 10, or probably 20 million employees who are at risk of losing their jobs.

Pete Newsome  08:03
And so that’s what we’re really talking about here. And what you and I have spoken about multiple times this week is just being incredulous that this is not consuming the airwaves. This is not on everyone’s mind. But you said it. Well, it’s because there are too many other bad things happening right now to focus on.

Ricky Baez  08:26
Yeah! It’s just so much happening right now. And I’m speaking for myself, it’s almost like we’re numb. We’re numb when things happen and when these things come out. And to me that’s dangerous, right? Because we can’t fall asleep on this.

Ricky Baez  08:42
I’ve talked to a lot of colleagues asking them, “Hey, what are you doing with this”? “What are you doing with that”? “We’re waiting and seeing.” And I’m thinking, “I’m not waiting and seeing”? I’m preparing just in case.

Ricky Baez  08:52
Because I tell you what, for the people that are waiting and seeing, and if it goes the opposite way, then when we think is going to go on Friday, those people are going to have a long weekend.

Pete Newsome  09:06
Yeah, I used to think about it quite a bit when the Affordable Care Act was being implemented. It was and then it wasn’t, it was going back and forth. I used to try to calculate the hours that were spent across small businesses, large businesses, trying to figure out how to handle this because it was very ambiguous and confusing.

Pete Newsome  09:33
I said, as I was telling you earlier, I had piles of paper on my desk trying to figure out, first of all, what the policy was. How we were going to accommodate it and what our options were, it was an absolute nightmare.

Pete Newsome  09:52
It was such a huge distraction from just trying to survive in business which is challenging enough. So, here we go again, except this time to your point, everyone’s sort of ignoring it. This is way bigger than what was happening back then with the Affordable Care Act.

Ricky Baez  10:11
Yeah, because of ACA, we just get fined. Over here we get fined as well if we don’t do things the right way, but people lose their jobs. People lose their jobs in an environment that we’re hurting for.

Ricky Baez  10:26
For good labor, especially in the healthcare industry. I’m going to put a wish out there, right. And the wish is that honestly, okay, Pete, I’m talking for myself, right? Not as a Four Corners employee. Just Ricky.

Pete Newsome  10:44
Okay.

Ricky Baez  10:45
Yeah, disclaimer, I honestly wish it would just go away. On Friday, they’ll say, “You know what, this is too much.” Let’s just go ahead, let each individual organization decide how they want to run their business. That’s what I would wish. Now obviously, if the law goes the other way, I’m going to follow the law. Right. But that’s just Ricky’s personal wish, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.

Ricky Baez  11:06
I just think exactly how you said with your first prediction. With everything happening with what you call the excrement contest? It’s just going to make it a lot harder for the organizations and the US citizens that they’re saying they’re trying to protect? That’s just my take on it.

Pete Newsome  11:29
Yeah, we could go down that rabbit hole. And we probably shouldn’t, but it is something we can’t ignore where the federal government in charge is making a conscious decision to punish employers and their employees.

Pete Newsome  11:48
I’m just going to say period there, why they’re punishing them to me is secondary. And there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of emotions about this vaccine, and how people feel about those who are vaccinated and those who aren’t. But this is punishment, no question about it and I’m with you.

Pete Newsome  12:11
That’s not my wish for the year, necessarily, but I’m 100% with you, that it should be and you know, I will hope and pray that this does not go through because carnage will ensue.

Ricky Baez  12:27
You don’t what you don’t want me to look at and I’ll let you know. I’ll check in after the show. I want to see what the odds are in Vegas. I want to see what they’re doing about it.

Pete Newsome  12:36
Vegas odds on the Supreme? Is that a thing on the Supreme Court? But if not, there’s a business opportunity.

Ricky Baez  12:41
They bet everything out there. You know, we’re in a bronze going to go? What’s going to happen with this? They bet for everything. So after this, I’m going to find out and I’m going to let you know to see if there are any odds out there and where is it leading.

Pete Newsome  12:55
That is so 2022 Right? Yeah, we’re just into it, it is like betting on court rulings. That’s what this is about.

Ricky Baez  13:03
Is that? You know what, let me not say anything. I mean, I’m sure it will be illegal if I was involved in that process. And I’m not I’m just a bystander hoping he goes the other way. But I got you.

Pete Newsome  13:15
Oh, believe it or not, I don’t think that the Hire Calling Podcast episode today is going to influence the Supreme Court justices. I’m not sure.

Ricky Baez  13:27
They listen Pete. They listen on the way to the bench or whatever it’s called. I don’t know.

Pete Newsome  13:34
But I want to make the point that I’m not making this prediction, as a result of what may or may not happen Friday. I think things are going to get worse before they get better, regardless, And the reason is because of this new wave of COVID that seems to just be going crazy. I think what a million cases in the US were reported yesterday?

Pete Newsome  13:58
So we’re out of tests, can’t find tests anywhere. And we are we’re test obsessed, which is a rabbit hole, I won’t go into that. But I’m going to take a test, I will say I test free. So I’m open to keeping that streak alive.

Pete Newsome  14:17
But also, this labor shortage is only getting worse as the fear in people increases. When it comes to more COVID and greater cases of infections, forget that it’s mild if the damage is done. And so my kids at school are back wearing masks, my elementary and middle school, and high school kids.

Pete Newsome  14:47
Masks are back like we came out of it and now we’re being pulled back in and that’s bad for the job market. You know, things are closing. My wife went by a retail store yesterday to get something for one of the kids, this is a very popular brand. I don’t want to name their name because it makes them sound kind of bad.

Pete Newsome  15:07
But they’re a household name, retail store, standalone store, it was closed, she went up to the door not thinking for a second, it would be locked. And someone inside came and said, “I’m sorry, we can’t open because we don’t have staff. And we are hoping to open later this week.”

Ricky Baez  15:25
This week?

Pete Newsome  15:26
This week. Yeah, not closed permanently, but closed simply because we don’t have the staff to support it. Yeah, she should have said call Four Corner Resources. I don’t know if she did. But I don’t think she did now that I’m thinking about it.

Ricky Baez  15:42
She’ll get a commission out of that, right?

Pete Newsome  15:47
But when has that ever been a thing? And we all have these stories, I think it comes up on every podcast because it’s so prevalent. And now it’s just here we go again, and it’s gonna get worse and more people are gonna leave the workforce. So 3 million more job openings in there are job seekers. Not good. Pretty awful. And it’s gonna get worse before it gets better. So I’m standing 100% behind that prediction, I went into there.

Ricky Baez  16:17
I don’t remember a time when I saw things like that. I’ve seen stores closed because of bad weather. But because of a lack of labor? I’ve never seen that in my professional career. Right?

Ricky Baez  16:34
Now, big name stores, I’m not as worried about, you know, who I am worried about though Pete? Mom and pop shops are the backbone of America. That’s what I’m worried about, right? Because if big store chains are having this kind of an issue, I don’t even want to think about what’s happening to mom and pop shops.

Ricky Baez  16:50
At the end of this patch, actually, I’m not going to say the end of 2012. I’m not going to even say the end of 2021. Towards the summer of 2020, when they started to thrive again, especially here in Florida. People kept visiting Florida, they kept going to the shops, they kept spending money. That’s what we want, just stimulate that economy.

Ricky Baez  17:07
And it’s just going backward. Now, I just feel bad for them. I really do. So I’m with you. With that prediction. I agree. I think it’s gonna get worse before it gets better. But the key here is resolved. We got to have some resolve and some patients to make sure we get through it.

Pete Newsome  17:21
And I want to say that there’s a silver lining for the employees who are the beneficiaries of increased income right now. That is happening along with this part of what’s going on right now. The problem is that inflation is going to eat that up. So the costs are going to get unnatural increases in salary. And we continue to see a huge labor war out there.

Pete Newsome  17:51
Which if you’re an employee, if you’re on the job market, right now, you’re thinking about a move, there’s no better time, no question about it. And truth be told, take advantage of that opportunity, because the inflation prices are going to hit you whether you do or not. And so that I want to say is a bit of a silver lining, but I don’t think it ultimately will be it’s all going to catch up in the end.

Ricky Baez  18:18
Yeah, January 5, and we’re already talking about doom and gloom.

Pete Newsome  18:22
Okay, but I do think it will get better. And I’m not going to make a prediction on this. But I will say that, from what it appears to be that this omicron version of COVID is significantly milder. I think that’s not a surprise to anyone at this point.

Pete Newsome  18:47
And the hope is that we ultimately stop having to react to it. The way you know, it has been for the past couple of years. That we just learn to live with it and accept it. And then move back on or get back to normal. I will say, easier said than done now right?

Ricky Baez  19:09
Well, the new normal, that was the big thing last year, right? Can’t wait for things to get back to normal and you’re gonna be sorely disappointed. Now just get used to this new normal, adapt, overcome and then go from there.

Pete Newsome  19:21
So that’s a good way to segue into prediction number two.

Ricky Baez  19:24
Okay.

Pete Newsome  19:25
Let’s get into that one. Actually, before we do I want to touch on something you referenced about the 4.5 million people quitting their job.

Ricky Baez  19:35
Yes.

Pete Newsome  19:35
And it’s interesting that you would bring that up now, earlier today, a group of friends in a text group sent an article from CNN, I think that quoted that number yesterday and asked my opinion on it.

Pete Newsome  19:49
And I looked at the article, and it was an interesting kind of a clickbait type of thing because it sounds alarming, right? 4.5 million people quit their jobs! And then what? Like they didn’t just quit and mingle in the street. They quit their jobs to take higher paying.

Ricky Baez  20:08
There you go.

Pete Newsome  20:09
It was such a weird, like what’s your point with this? And the article was very short, I swear the font and the headline was larger than any quality content and the article. But that is what’s happening as we were just talking about in this labor war.

Pete Newsome  20:33
So yes, people are quitting. Yes, people are getting new jobs. As they’re quitting because of the new jobs. That’s what’s going on right now.

Ricky Baez  20:43
So I fell for that clickbait. I did because I clicked and I’m like, “Oh, my god.” So I’m reading. And then I started thinking, “Well, wait a minute, nowhere in there does it say how many of these folks went to do their own thing?” Right? How many of them went to do DoorDash full time, Uber Eats, or start their own company full time?

Ricky Baez  21:02
Because if you tell me 30% of those folks started their own thing. That means 70% of people fill other positions. They fill other positions somewhere else. So if you got 4.5 million that left, 30% started their own business, 70% filled other positions, so that’s helping the economy.

Ricky Baez  21:22
And hopefully, the people who in the organizations who were left, the people who left the organization, they take a look at whether they could have held that employee, give them more money. Or they’re just a little bit off, exactly with how you said. Inflation is going to catch up and they’re gonna start throwing money at it.

Ricky Baez  21:40
But inflation is going to catch up to them later on. And I don’t know about you, Pete, I felt that during the Thanksgiving and Christmas break that Turkey was expensive. And look, I’m Puerto Rican. And in a Puerto Rican household during Christmas, we got something called pernil.

Ricky Baez  21:57
For those of you who are listening and don’t know what that is, Google it, it is an amazing dish. It’s just roasted pork on the ground, It’s awesome. And that was expensive too. 

Pete Newsome  22:04
Do you really think anyone’s going to be able to Google that based on the way you pronounced it. And said it with the accent. I don’t even know what letters are right now, what are they Googling exactly?

Ricky Baez  22:14
So I didn’t want to do it an injustice. But same “per neil.” Right?

Pete Newsome  22:19
I noticed you can’t help yourself when you do that every time. Yeah, you get a real thick Puerto Rican accent.

Ricky Baez  22:25
Absolutely.

Ricky Baez  22:26
I got to, I have to my mom is listening. She’ll beat me. But yeah, so you’re right. That inflation is going to catch up. But I agree with you if that inflation is going to catch up.

Ricky Baez  22:38
So if you have that opportunity to make more money, what are you going to do? You’re going to stay where you are and not make enough money you possibly could? Because that inflation is going to bite you. Right?

Ricky Baez  22:48
So do what you need to do. But 4.5 million, I wish they would have cited how many of those started their own business. That’s my only gripe with that article.

Pete Newsome  22:56
So actually, we’ll touch on this with one of the predictions, because it’s relevant. But I want to jump in just quickly to say, do what you have to do. If you’re an employee, you always look out for yourself first. There is no question, that is what you should do.

Pete Newsome  23:15
But also give your employer a break and understand that nobody was prepared for this. And every single day at Four Corner, we’re having to educate employers who are just unaware of how bad things are. And that’s something that we take for granted. Because we live with it day in and day out, this is what we do.

Pete Newsome  23:37
But it’s not with bad intentions, that employers may not be keeping pace with the increased compensation that’s going on right now. It’s been rapid and it’s been severe. It’s been unlike anything we’ve ever seen. And so we’re having to do a lot of education, in addition to recruiting jobs.

Pete Newsome  24:05
To say, the world shifted and your position that you’ve paid $50,000 for the past two years is now a $65,000 position in the market based on the conditions and that may sound a little extreme, but it’s not too far off.

Pete Newsome  24:21
And so my advice to employees in that regard is if you’re getting calls about similar roles, paying significantly more, and you know, you’re going to leave or you’re thinking about leaving, you’re otherwise very happy at your job and you like your environment. Give your employer an opportunity.

Pete Newsome  24:41
Yes, that’s not a bad thing to do, let them know. And that’s something that may be a bit of an unpopular opinion, or may be nontraditional advice. But it’ll give that employer an opportunity to learn to let them know what you’re thinking and what you’re seeing.

Pete Newsome  25:05
There is no downside to doing that. And you may be surprised by the outcome, it may be a big one for everyone. So it’s just weird times right now. And so the rules are being written as we go. Quite a few things right now.

Ricky Baez  25:20
We talked about it in one of our meetings a few months ago, we’re building the ship as we’re sailing on it. Right? That’s what we’re doing. We’re going to have some leak, you know, some leakage. We’re not going to have some leakage. But you’re right.

Ricky Baez  25:36
It’s extending that invitation to have that conversation. But I don’t think that advice is not traditional. I think that’s really good advice, that’s, traditional advice. Because it’s all about that conversation.

Ricky Baez  25:49
It’s all about letting your boss know, “look, here’s what I’m thinking about doing. Right? “I like it here. But I got to think about my family. What can we do here? Because I want to stay here, I want to work with you. But at the same time, I gotta do what’s best for my family.” Let’s go to lunch and have a conversation about that.

Ricky Baez  26:03
There is nothing wrong with that. Now, either the boss is gonna say, “No, we’re good goodbye,” depending on your performance. Or your boss will say, “You know what, let’s talk about it and come to an agreement there.”

Ricky Baez  26:03
But give them the opportunity to have a conversation, to see what we can do. The person at the top doesn’t always know exactly what’s going on with you. So it’s up to you to let them know exactly what’s going on. So you can be on the same sheet of music. That’s the only advice I would have.

Pete Newsome  26:29
For sure. But do that once you already have an offer or an opportunity because sometimes that won’t go well.

Ricky Baez  26:39
Absolutely.

Pete Newsome  26:41
Then that’s unfortunate, people should be able to communicate openly and understand that we all ultimately do look out for ourselves. I think that’s natural, but that’s about the only thing it’s natural in these times. So let’s go on to the second prediction, I’m going to change the order up because we were sort of leading into something different now.

Pete Newsome  27:04
Which is the gig economy is going to continue to grow and expand. When we talk about those 4.5 million people leaving, yes, I think the vast majority of them have just left for other jobs. But some percentage is probably retiring, leaving the workforce that happens every month with some regularity.

Pete Newsome  27:26
But the gig economy is also changing the landscape quite a bit and more companies are taking advantage of what that offers. More employees are taking advantage of the freedom and flexibility that comes with your gig based positions.

Pete Newsome  27:47
And I personally love it because I think it changes the traditional employee-employer relationship into a healthier version. Where you as the HR guy are constantly facing this. You know when a termination is necessary, you immediately go into defense mode of all the reasons why a lawsuit may happen or a complaint may be filed. Right?

Pete Newsome  28:21
Which is having nothing to do with the fact that an employer has an employee they choose to not want to work there anymore. Or if an employee wants to resign, you kind of automatically have to think, “Did someone do something wrong?”

Pete Newsome  28:40
Are we a company subject to some accusation of some sort? And that it’s necessary given the litigious nature of our society and the way the laws have evolved. But, man, is that an unhealthy way to operate. So that’s my take on it. And I think the gig economy is a great answer to solving that which I consider to be a problem.

Ricky Baez  29:10
Social media had a lot to do with that. I don’t think we will be talking about this right now. If Facebook wasn’t prevalent, LinkedIn, all these things were not as prevalent as they are right now. Especially with the gig comedy. Comedy. Oh, my goodness, gig economy. Sorry about that.

Ricky Baez  29:27
But yeah, so I’m trying to understand what you say. You are saying that you like the way the gig economy, Is influencing everything that’s happening or you don’t like?

Pete Newsome  29:40
I think no, I think it’s going to continue to grow and become more prevalent. So let’s say there are 4.5 million who left their jobs didn’t leave the workforce but may have entered into a nontraditional work arrangement where they wouldn’t be counted in The Department of Labor Statistics necessarily.

Pete Newsome  30:02
So if you want to work a contract gig, now, you mentioned Uber and a couple of those other organizations, where you kind of choose your own schedule, you come and go as you please, you’re not a traditional employee. But you’re still very much in the workforce.

Pete Newsome  30:23
And I don’t know enough about those organizations, the nature of their relationship with their employees, but I believe they’re all independent contractors. So they wouldn’t count towards that traditional labor market number.

Pete Newsome  30:39
But everyone wins in that situation, the worker gets paid for what they’re doing, the company pays for the labor and the skill, and everyone’s happy.

Pete Newsome  30:55
And if they’re not, they just choose to not do it anymore. No harm, no foul, they part ways and it is so clean. So it’s not just in that area, it’s in areas of web development, for example, right?

Pete Newsome  31:12
If you’re a web developer, web designer, or a content writer, you can choose to work job to job, you know, project to project. One writing project at a time if you want to. And it really does provide this incredible level of flexibility and freedom for the employees.

Pete Newsome  31:32
And for the employer, in addition to just making the nature of the relationship clean and healthy in a way that isn’t possible, necessarily, in a traditional setting. The employer gets what they pay for, and the employee gets rewarded for their effort and their knowledge and skill, and you agree, kind of on a day to day basis.

Pete Newsome  32:00
Where I would say being in the contract staffing world, I tend to think of the relationship that way. Where if tomorrow, our client no longer needs the contract employee who’s working for them, they can make that decision, and they part ways. Similarly, although we’d like to see notice given on both sides, and the warning and all of those things, the contract employee can do that as well.

Pete Newsome  32:28
Without feeling like they’re leaving behind something more than the job. And the gig economy just solves all that. Where it is just project based work. And as long as we like each other, we’ll continue to work together as if the need is there.

Pete Newsome  32:46
And when something better comes along, or we decide we don’t like each other as much as we used to, then we just part ways and move on, and no big deal. And I’m trying to find a downside to it, and there isn’t much.

Ricky Baez  33:02
I agree with you I don’t see that big of a downside to that other than if you’re somebody who loves the corporate nine to five world, just take a look at what that looked like 10 years ago, take a look at what that looks like today. And you can almost pinpoint what’s going to happen in 10 years.

Ricky Baez  33:22
You can almost pinpoint it. Because right now you’re right, the 1099 is becoming more of a thing. I don’t know how Uber Eats or DoorDash is going to last though, because I have to tell you, I used it a couple of weeks ago, and I just bought McDonald’s, Pete.

Ricky Baez  33:38
McDonald’s for me and my eight year old, 30 bucks. After tip and after the service fee and everything that was a lot, and I don’t know how long that’s going to last.

Pete Newsome  33:50
Well, I don’t know how long you’re going to last if you’re buying McDonald’s, but that’s a different question.

Ricky Baez  33:55
It was easy, Pete. It was easy for a Happy Meal and a Big Mac.

Pete Newsome  34:00
No, I’m kidding. But there’s a you got to say McDonald’s serves that on a platter.

Ricky Baez  34:04
Alright.

Pete Newsome  34:06
But no, we’ve experienced the same thing. You’re paying for convenience, but you’re paying a lot for that convenience. And they seem to be thriving. Right? I think those organizations are out there.

Pete Newsome  34:22
But you look at Uber, I talked to the Uber drivers. I’m a huge fan of that service and the concept and just from convenience, it just works really, really well. I think the price is fair. I love the supply and demand nature of it and how the price goes up. I think that just makes sense. And the employees are happy because they’re choosing to do it.

Pete Newsome  34:53
Every time they flip on the app and say they’re available right? If they’re not, there’s no grind, there’s no working their way up a ladder. It’s just they either choose to do it or they don’t. And it’s on Uber to set the income and how they pay at a rate that will attract enough people.

Pete Newsome  35:14
And that to me is how the market should work when it’s working right. And if Uber can’t attract people, then you know there’s going to be something else that comes along. Right? To take the place, that’s how they knocked out the cab business.

Ricky Baez  35:28
Yeah.

Pete Newsome  35:29
Cleaner cars, more convenient, and it just made more sense. So It was a better idea, better route.

Ricky Baez  35:37
How did they do that? They did. They’re in multi. I mean, I don’t have stats in front of me. They’re a multi-billion dollar organization. Zero product that they develop, they just provide a service. They don’t have to stock shelves, they don’t have to do anything. They just provide a venue and connect person A to person B, charge a fee, boom, you’re done.

Ricky Baez  35:37
And I think, I read a couple of years ago, Uber back then still a multibillion dollar organization have 30 employees. 30 which is like I mean, 30 W2 employees.

Pete Newsome  36:08
It turned out right. 

Ricky Baez  36:13
People understand that piece, and you started to take a look at how that’s shifting. Right? Which, that goes along with the gig economy, that we’re seeing the big surges of it.

Ricky Baez  36:25
Because look at Netflix, right? Well, they got products. So Netflix, maybe Facebook now called meta, right? They provide that service, LinkedIn is service, they’re multi-billion dollar organizations, all about connecting people. So I like how that’s changing the landscape.

Ricky Baez  36:41
As far as from the employee’s perspective, I like how it’s changing it from a consumer perspective. The key is right now for business leaders and employees is, what are you going to do to make sure that for you to survive, to retain your talent, or, I don’t know if I should say this, and not change how you do business just to be able to compete one way or the other.

Ricky Baez  36:43
Either way, you’ve got to keep your eyes open. If you fall asleep, that train is going to leave you in the station, and now you’re going to be stuck.

Pete Newsome  37:15
Right. And that’s what we’re seeing happen right now, every day where companies can hold on to the way they used to do things. Or they can adapt and those who are adapting are not just surviving, but they have opportunities to improve through all these changes in the market right now.

Pete Newsome  37:38
So as bad as most of it is, I am optimistic for the evolution of what’s happening right now is. And so for me that prediction that the gig economy will increase. I think that’s where a lot of employees are going and they’re not coming back.

Pete Newsome  37:59
Because why would you? If you get a taste of that freedom. And as I said, I’m a big fan of it. For sure. The concept in general.

Ricky Baez  38:09
Can you imagine, your home on a Saturday night, you’re upset at your spouse. God I  got to get me some money. Just go run people back and forth from the airport, should be good.

Ricky Baez  38:19
You know what, Pete? Also just a little bit off track. I used to have an employee who worked in Lake Mary with me, and he lived in Kissimmee.

Ricky Baez  38:29
So what he did, single guy, everyday after work on his way home, he would Uber people, a few places here and there on his way home.

Ricky Baez  38:38
It takes him about four hours to get home, but he makes money on his way home, he was so efficient with it. So it’s things like that. That kind of ingenuity that I’m excited about and we’re seeing today. So I love it.

Pete Newsome  38:50
That’s really cool, and those opportunities are everywhere. And there’s a couple of websites that do a really good job of connecting those who have a need with, you know, those who have a skill that they’re looking to be paid for.

Pete Newsome  39:02
And the coolest part of all to me is that you’re just doing it based on what the value of someone’s time and the value of what that person can deliver. And there’s no ambiguity or funny kind of math getting in the way of government intervention.

Pete Newsome  39:22
You know, that takes money out of everyone’s pockets unnecessarily within this. It’s just a really neat deal. So we just need to get where everyone’s getting paid in Bitcoin, and then we’ll be good to go. Although the price of Bitcoin is tanked today.

Ricky Baez  39:40
Yeah, it’s dropping.

Pete Newsome  39:42
I think the federal government, I keep going back to that. Well, there are some redeeming qualities of the government, I think. But that came out and implied they’re gonna start raising interest rates, so.

Ricky Baez  39:54
It’s time to buy by the game one, right.

Pete Newsome  39:58
Okay, so prediction number three.

Ricky Baez  40:00
Yes.

Pete Newsome  40:01
And this also has to do with adaptation based on what’s going on right now. And that is that the initial ones are not going to be popular if I’m right, that the remote only options that we’ve seen become so widespread over the past year, are going to start going in the opposite direction.

Pete Newsome  40:21
And companies are going to begin pulling people back into the office, not because it’s safe to I think we’ve already gotten over that hurdle for the most part. Although we sort of gone backwards a little bit.

Pete Newsome  40:33
But because of the realization that you lose a lot by having remote employees, and companies aren’t able to figure out how to get back what they had in terms of culture, the benefit of training, all the positives that come along with people working with people, and in the same environment and close proximity.

Pete Newsome  41:00
I say that largely because of a conference that I went to, about a month ago, where it was a combination of IT staffing companies, as well as a CIO forum that was together. And they all had the same complaints and the staffing companies had the same concern.

Pete Newsome  41:25
The CIOs of many of them from big companies had is that things just start working as well as they’d like, remotely. And maybe we may need to start bringing people back in for things to go the way they need them to.

Ricky Baez  41:41
So I’m with you, and I’m not with you, I’ll explain. Do I think organizations are going to start bringing people back? Yes, I think so because of exactly what you said. Now, a lot of people don’t know this, you know about this.

Ricky Baez  41:57
But when the metaverse starts getting more widely known, when web 3.0 starts getting more widely known, and that becomes more common, we’re going to be in a situation that it’s almost better to work remotely, because the office environment is going to be a virtually reality type of a thing at that point in time.

Ricky Baez  42:22
Not this year, not next year. But with what I’m reading everything I’m researching, it’s organizations are looking into creating a virtual reality type of work environment that could replace that human contact. I hate to say it because I love, I love connecting with people. I love meeting with people.

Ricky Baez  42:42
But that’s what I’m saying this year, I think there’s gonna be a lot of issues with people coming back. And now I’m thinking about going back to that $4.5 million, people who left the organization. I also want to see how many of them left because they were being forced to come back, right? Because I don’t know that neither. Right?

Pete Newsome  43:00
Well, that currently is a competitive bit of competitive leverage one way or the other and aware companies who are forcing their employees to come back, are losing those employees to those who aren’t. We know that, but I think we’ll touch on this weird situation.

Ricky Baez  43:24
With the metaphors? Sorry about that.

Pete Newsome  43:28
I got to tell you that Mark Zuckerberg video was just bizarre.

Ricky Baez  43:32
No, I’m not talking about him. I mean, in general, right? Just the whole idea behind it.

Pete Newsome  43:39
And that’s where I’m going. I think that, even though the technology may allow for it, I don’t think you can replicate. In many cases, the value and the benefit and the power of being together it.

Pete Newsome  43:59
Maybe it’s like you said at some point in the future, that will happen. I don’t know. That’s if that’s the future I want to be a part of. But I think that it’s hard to quantify, and I’m not doing a great job of articulating exactly finding the right words, but you lose a lot by not being together.

Pete Newsome  44:24
And one of the ways that I’ve been thinking about it is that if companies over the past, I would say 20 years have really started to rely on their culture being a differentiator, right, whatever their culture might be.

Pete Newsome  44:43
And if you kind of think about who a company is, it’s usually their culture that sort of tells that story. Well, what is your culture if everyone’s virtual, what makes one company different than another?

Pete Newsome  44:58
At that point, and I believe that carries forward, not just for your internal employees and how they feel, but I think it carries forward externally, and how you interface with your clients and customers.

Pete Newsome  45:16
An executive at Disney that I was meeting with years ago said that they would only hire, they wouldn’t hire people for their costs or their customer service group who hadn’t been to Disney World. Because how could you talk about Disney World if you’ve never been there? Right?

Pete Newsome  45:31
And so you kind of think, yeah, you can carry that forward in a situation. And that’s where I think is, you know, you have to be present at some point to have any semblance of culture if it’s going to be meaningful.

Ricky Baez  45:48
That’s an interesting one because I wasn’t thinking about the culture piece. But you’re right because a lot of organizations compete about who’s got the best culture, what kind of culture because I’m a big believer in it. I mean, that’s my title, right?

Ricky Baez  45:59
The rights of people and culture. But from an online remote perspective, I just don’t know what that looks like right now. I don’t, right? But I’m telling you, Pete, in about four years, four or five years thats going to be it.

Ricky Baez  46:16
Because when all the projects I’m seeing right now, and all the advancements in technology, that’s happening in that space, that’s going to be a thing. It’s almost like this whole thing was a test.

Ricky Baez  46:18
I mean, I don’t know I have an eight year old and he plays Roblox I don’t know if you know what that is? Roblox, and I’m watching what he’s playing, and he’s at a party with somebody.

Ricky Baez  46:41
He’s at a party with other kids, and I’m looking, I’m like, okay, he better not be 20, he better not be 15, you better be partying with other eight year olds, right? It’s, I don’t know, to me, this is something that’s coming and it’s something that we need to pay attention to. It’s not just now, but either way, you’re right. People are going to go back to the office.

Pete Newsome  47:06
When I was not eight years old, I was significantly older, I got sucked into playing World of Warcraft. And, you know, was a massive multiplayer online game, right? So and I would describe the gameplay as you just did.

Pete Newsome  47:22
He was at a party with someone, I’m in a group, you know, go into kill another whatever. I wasn’t in a group. I was sitting on my couch, drinking Jack Daniels and not exercising, that’s what I was doing. And ignoring the people actually in my life.

Pete Newsome  47:39
And I did it, I got sucked in and it was fun. I mean, it was great. It was addictive, I thoroughly enjoyed it. But I realized after you know, about 20 pounds, that this is a terror.

Pete Newsome  47:53
This is like a really unhealthy thing.

Ricky Baez  47:55
Yeah.

Pete Newsome  47:55
And so it’s a little scary in a way because of the draw is so strong, and I’m concerned about that, because I don’t think it’s good for humanity.

Ricky Baez  48:11
For people who don’t believe that watch Wally. That’ll tell you and you just gave me an idea to do something tonight. You say Jack Daniels and World of Warcraft? Got it? That sounds like a good time.

Pete Newsome  48:25
I actually had to delete my account all at once. Character, like done. I can’t do this anymore. And I miss it. But it was fun. But I’m better off.

Pete Newsome  48:41
I hear you.

Pete Newsome  48:42
So that’s way off track. So companies, I think we’ll see maybe I’m wrong. Maybe you’re more right with this one. I don’t know how we’ll measure it, but we’ll try. We’re going to see a reversal of the remote work as sort of a trend that I think everyone is trying to adopt.

Pete Newsome  49:02
I think a lot of companies are going to change, that’s going to be tough for them. Right? Because employees are going to resist it, that’s for sure. So we’ll see what happens there.

Pete Newsome  49:14
So the last one, and this is the one I’m most excited about, prediction. Because it’s been really near and dear for me since I started Four Corner. I believe staffing is going to become significantly more strategic throughout 2022 than it has been in recent history.

Pete Newsome  49:42
To get a little deeper with that, when I started in recruiting in 1993. I worked in it for the mid-90s before getting away from staffing for about 10 years. It was a very intimate act.

Pete Newsome  50:00
The staffing companies would work closely with the hiring managers and spend time understanding exactly who they needed in addition to the skill sets that were needed. And it was a very personal thing as it should be. Right?

Pete Newsome  50:14
I mean, you know, the who you hire as an employer is going to probably be the biggest determination of how successful you’re going to be as an organization. And who you go to work for, as an employee, where you spend your eight waking hours, how you earn income for your living, is as important as almost any decision you’re going to make in life.

Pete Newsome  50:39
And so these are big decisions, they need to be treated as such. Well, when I came back into staffing in 2005, I was shocked when I saw my first managed service provider contract. Where the service provider is the third party organization that sits in between a staffing company and the employer.

Ricky Baez  51:04
Okay.

Pete Newsome  51:05
Who’s going to be doing the actual hiring, where the employee is actually going to work. And when I saw the first contract, I was in disbelief. And I said, “Who would ever sign a suit”? Because it essentially stated that the recruiter is not allowed to be in contact with the hiring manager.

Pete Newsome  51:25
And I thought, how can you hire someone that you’re not in touch with? Who would do that? And the answer is a lot of companies do that.

Ricky Baez  51:37
A lot? Okay.

Pete Newsome  51:39
A lot of big employers have started to hire that way over the past 20 years or so. And it’s really commoditized hiring. And I think of all things that should be commoditized hiring is not one of them. And I am excited at the prospect of that.

Pete Newsome  52:02
It won’t go away, but I think it will be diminished throughout 2022. Because it’s not how hiring should be done. It’s not natural, It’s not personal, and It’s not intimate.

Pete Newsome  52:15
Those are things that we believe in very strongly at Four Corner, as you well know, and anyone who works with us quickly finds out and I think it should be strategic, if not the most strategic thing a company does. And now that there’s such a labor shortage, it’s the IT staffing is time to shine. That’s my prediction.

Ricky Baez  52:39
That’s a good point. With everything happening, you’re right. This is the staffing organization’s time to really shine. If you’re waiting for an opportunity to really break out of it, no break into this it right now.

Ricky Baez  52:53
You’re right about that. We do have to get back to the human touch. And I know what I just talked about earlier doesn’t really go there. I’m just being honest. Right? But you’re right, we do have to get back to that human touch. That’s something that we’ve forgotten over the years.

Ricky Baez  53:06
We kind of got back to it a little bit. But we have forgotten it. And I tell all my students, right, we’re all HR professionals here. Never forget what the H stands for. And that’s human. I had one guy tell me, “Hourly?”

Ricky Baez  53:21
Like get out of my class, you’re ruining my mojo. You need a refund. No, I agree with you 100% this is the time, especially with so many things happening. And we talked about this a few episodes, a few months ago, the importance of EAP.

Ricky Baez  53:42
The importance of mental awareness. Now more than ever, with everything happening with thinking things are going to get better than they got worse. It really messes with somebody’s emotions. So this is the time to shine.

Ricky Baez  53:54
And we talked about it at the very first kickoff meeting we had of the year, just a couple of days ago, we talked about It in that meeting. The one thing we should focus on is the candidate experience.

Ricky Baez  54:09
How to make that connection, how to connect with that person as a human being, how to make them feel like they’re not a number, and they really do matter. So you’re right. This is the time to do that.

Ricky Baez  54:20
Actually, I’m excited about that, Pete because that’s what I thrive on. And yeah, I can’t wait to see how we take advantage of that this year.

Pete Newsome  54:31
Yeah, I think as an industry, we have a great opportunity. And everyone wins. I think the employers will benefit by that. I know the employees will benefit the job seekers will benefit greatly selfishly or in a self serving manner.

Pete Newsome  54:47
The staffing industry will benefit as a whole because it ultimately comes down to people working with people and there are certain things that can be automated but shouldn’t be.

Pete Newsome  55:00
That’s probably how I’ll leave it. If any of our MSP friends listen to this, they won’t be thrilled. But it’s the reality of the situation. And it’s what I believe. So I’m going to stick with it.

Ricky Baez  55:16
Excellent.

Pete Newsome  55:17
So those are my four predictions.

Ricky Baez  55:19
You had a wish, right?

Pete Newsome  55:20
I do have a wish. And in the wishes, this isn’t even staffing related, but I think it’ll help the industry and help hiring and help the employee market as I really wish that we can find balance.

Pete Newsome  55:35
You know, in 2022, and find a middle ground again, and that has been lost. We even have to quantify that further. I think everyone listening knows what I mean by that.

Pete Newsome  55:50
And that’s not who we should be. That’s not how we used to be in the not too distant past. But my wish and hope is that we get back to that for all of our benefits in 2022.

Ricky Baez  56:06
Can I add to that?

Pete Newsome  56:07
Of course!

Ricky Baez  56:08
My own personal wish, I want to piggyback on that. I agree with you, I want everything to balance and get back to those basics. But what I also want to say as well is, at some point, we’re going to get to a point where we’re going to look back at these last 24 or 36 months. And just say that was to pivot a point to how awesome we are today.

Ricky Baez  56:34
My wish is for that time to get here quick. That’s my wish, I tell all of my students that I envy them, I envy them coming into HR. And this being the first hurdle they have to you know, cut the teeth in, in human resources. Because I want to tell them everything from here on out is going to be downhill.

Ricky Baez  57:02
So I and my colleagues have the opportunity to see how HR used to be. What’s happening right now is this weird change that we’re going in and how it’s going to end up this year and later on. But this is the first thing they see. So let me tell you what you’re going to see in these next five years.

Ricky Baez  57:21
Pete, you’re going to see some hard cutthroat HR folks, I’m not saying that in a bad way. I’m just saying that like, these guys are going to have thick skin. Nothing is going to faze them because they’re being baptized by fire.

Ricky Baez  57:36
And not just HR people. Any person who’s coming of age who either finishes high school or finishes college and then coming into corporate America. This is their first experience. Nothing’s going to faze them, we’re going to see a pop in ingenuity in the next 10 years. I guarantee it.

Pete Newsome  57:52
Well, it’s ripe with opportunity. And let’s hope we can take advantage of it in the right way. I agree.

Ricky Baez  57:59
Absolutely.

Pete Newsome  58:02
There’s been no time like this. And let’s hope there won’t be again. And that we get on the other side of it as soon as possible.

Ricky Baez  58:09
Knock on everything, knock it on my head. That’s wood enough, excellent.

Pete Newsome  58:15
All right, man. So that’s it. I think we will see, we’ll revisit in a year or sooner if these things come true. I believe they will. I hope a couple of them don’t.

Pete Newsome  58:27
But we’re not going to have to wait long for some fireworks beginning January 7 in 2 days. Fingers crossed, right? What can we say?

Ricky Baez  58:38
Yeah, I can hear my gray hairs growing, excellent.

Pete Newsome  58:43
So thank you for listening. Email us please Hirecalling@4cornerresources.com. Rate and review us if you’re listening. We love fives. We would certainly appreciate that.

Pete Newsome  58:56
And feedback anytime is great and suggestions. If you put it out there we’ll try to get to I think we’re probably due for a q&a.

Ricky Baez  59:03
That’s right.

Pete Newsome  59:03
Here very soon. So stay tuned for that. And thank you for listening. Ricky, thank you as always,

Ricky Baez  59:10
Thank you very much, Pete. I really appreciate it, folks. Thank you for listening. Hopefully, you had a great holiday season and hopefully, you’re ready for 2022. We are just happy and I’m being really sincere the opposite of what I did earlier in the show.

Ricky Baez  59:27
We’re just happy to be able to do this and be here for you guys. So please, any questions any comments, shoot us an email let us know we will love to hear from you. That said thank you for listening drive safe and good night.

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