In this episode of The Hire Calling Podcast, Ricky Baez develops the idea to challenge Pete after arriving from a recent Disrupt HR event in Orlando. Pete Newsome is asked a series of unsuspecting HR related questions.
The podcast begins with Pete answering the first of five questions that Ricky throws at him. Pete gives his opinion on how to attract candidates and why companies should not disregard this crucial step in building staff. During his 16 years in the workforce, Pete also goes over the necessary skills he learned that are essential for leadership.
The podcast closes with some of Ricky’s horror stories from when he was interviewing potential candidates.
The employee market in 2022 is strong, salaries are going up, and there are more job opportunities. If you are a business owner or work in HR, the answers to these questions will help you when it comes to seeking new employees.
Ricky’s 5 question challenge
Ricky’s 5 Question Challenge
1. How do you maintain candidate engagement during the recruiting process?
2. How do you ensure an employee will stay in the current candidate’s market?
3. How do you keep in touch with strong candidates who weren’t selected for a current job opening?
4. What leadership traits are required for employee communication?
5. How do you handle hostile callers?
- Highly Effective Strategies for Employee Retention
- How To Be A Leader In The Workplace
- The Importance of Talent Relationship Management
- How To Give Your Candidate Interview Feedback
Pete Newsome 00:00
Welcome, everyone, and thank you for listening to The Hire Calling Podcast. I’m Pete Newsome, and this is your source for all things hiring, staffing, and recruiting. Ricky, welcome back. How are you today?
Ricky Baez 00:10
I’m doing great Pete. It’s a beautiful day in Central Florida, depending on what time of the day you ask me. In the morning it’s absolutely cold, noon is summer, and in the evening it’s fall.
Pete Newsome 00:21
So you don’t like the cold? What is it?
Ricky Baez 00:25
I love the cold but stick around for a little bit more than 11 am right? I dress like I’m in Alaska in the morning and then I pull out the flip flops in the afternoon to go for lunch. Then for dinner, the leaves are falling again. It’s kind of confusing Pete.
Pete Newsome 00:40
I’m with you, but it’s better than snow right? We can agree on that.
Ricky Baez 00:45
I can agree with that because I love snow for a good five minutes, after that I’m done.
Pete Newsome 00:51
There’s no threat of that happening anytime soon here. I think we’re good.
Ricky Baez 00:55
Pete Newsome 00:56
I think it’s not that cold yet. So you know, we’re okay.
Ricky Baez 01:05
Well, your heater didn’t go out, mine did.
Pete Newsome 01:10
Wait, you had to use your heater? You’re like 10 miles from me?
Ricky Baez 01:16
It was 48 degrees, right? It’s not just me, there’s somebody else in my household that really hates the cold. And I mean, her hating the cold is anything below 70 degrees.
Pete Newsome 01:32
Ricky Baez 01:34
It’s a fight in my household for the thermostat.
Pete Newsome 01:36
It’s a happy day for me when it’s cold in the house, I’m the opposite. But no, my sweet wife, unfortunately, has to suffer. But my logic is that you can put on layers, you can only take off so much. It should be cold and then act accordingly, that’s the way I approach it.
Ricky Baez 01:58
You do have a point, Pete. There is only so much you can take off before the cops are called.
Pete Newsome 02:05
Exactly, there are children at home.
Ricky Baez 02:07
That’s right, yes sir.
Pete Newsome 02:09
Well cool, we’re back for an episode. We’re going to do something a little bit differently today. You had a Disrupt HR meeting that you just hosted? Was it last week? Or was it earlier this week?
Ricky Baez 02:22
It was earlier this week, it was a Monday. We have a disrupt HR Orlando, which is a networking event for HR pros and business leaders where they go on stage.
Ricky Baez 02:33
They got a five minute presentation and they have exactly five minutes to present. And 20 slides, each slide transitions from one slide to the next, automatically every 15 seconds. As soon as the speaker starts talking, they have no control over their presentation, it’s terrifying.
Pete Newsome 02:52
Did you present at this most recent one.
Ricky Baez 02:55
No, actually I run the Orlando chapter, I present it for the first five. I think that’s enough for the Orlando area to hear me speak. So I wanted to give other people the opportunity to do so. But running it, it’s just as stressful, It really is.
Pete Newsome 03:13
I’m sure I’d say it’s more stressful. But I am wondering why I haven’t been invited to speak. Is it because I’m too non HR? Is that why I don’t pass the test?
Ricky Baez 03:23
You know what? So that’s a good point. This next one that Summer and I are going to put together, you’re coming, sir, come on over and speak but it’s fun.
Ricky Baez 03:35
Now, I know how you are. You’re just like me, whenever you go on stage, we don’t have an agenda. Okay, we have an agenda, but we don’t have notes. We don’t have specific things that we read. For people like us, Pete, it is terrifying, right?
Ricky Baez 03:50
You have exactly 15 seconds to talk about a slide. And it’s got to transition to the next and if you go over that time your eating up time for your next slide. Next thing you know you’re rushing to the very end.
Ricky Baez 04:02
You leave the stage sweating, you look back at your video and you punish yourself for the next time because you keep looking over and over again at what you should have done or could have done. But it’s fun, it really is a good time. So the next one you’re coming.
Pete Newsome 04:16
How many speakers per event?
Ricky Baez 04:19
We had anywhere between eight and 12.
Pete Newsome 04:21
I’ll sign up for 4 of the slides and problem solved.
Ricky Baez 04:28
Speaker one, two, three, four, five, and then the rest of the four is Pete.
Pete Newsome 04:33
Kind of yeah.
Ricky Baez 04:34
Well, you know, I was at this event Pete, and the whole point of this is to network. That’s it to HR people and business leaders just let their hair down it’s PG 13 or rated R right? If profanity and edgy content is not your thing, this is not the place for you.
Pete Newsome 04:52
Wow, look at you HR folks going nuts.
Ricky Baez 04:54
Oh, that’s right! We know how to have a good time there Pete and all it is, is just drink beer, alcohol and just talk crap. No, I’m just kidding, we do have a great time.
Ricky Baez 05:04
But you know, in networking, everybody kept asking the same kinds of questions. I see this every single year, they keep asking the same kinds of questions to different people the same tone, which kind of lets me know, this is what people are worried about.
Ricky Baez 05:19
This is why they’re worried about 2022. This is why they’re worried about 2021. So I knew that you and I were doing this podcast today. So I’m like, You know what, let me collect all these questions.
Ricky Baez 05:32
Let me let Pete know now for the folks who don’t know, Pete and I had a conversation about this one, so I’m just going to peg in with these questions. He doesn’t know these questions are coming and he knows questions aren’t coming. He doesn’t know which questions are coming.
Ricky Baez 05:44
So let’s see how this goes. Are you ready for this?
Pete Newsome 05:47
Ricky Baez 05:49
All right, so me walking around hanging on a beer in hand talking to people talking to business leaders. And these are the kinds of concerns that they have. So here’s the first question that I’m going to throw at you. All right. So, Pete, it’s definitely an employee’s market. What ideas do you guys have to fully engage a candidate in the recruiting process?
Pete Newsome 06:12
Well, it is, in fact, an employee’s market, the strongest employee’s market any of us have ever seen. I say that with confidence, because there are millions of job openings, millions of more job openings, and there are job seekers, I think that comes up every time we talk.
Pete Newsome 06:30
So I think the first step is to acknowledge that and a lot of companies have it. Staffing is always a challenge under any circumstances. But it’s a really significant one now, and you have to acknowledge the situation that we’re in, which is, as an employer, you’re not in charge.
Pete Newsome 06:50
You have to make your opportunity and your organization attractive to the job seekers that are out there. I mean, it is classic supply and demand at play. There’s been a big adjustment in many areas right now, as you well know.
Pete Newsome 07:10
They adjusted salaries up significantly, that’s growing even more. I just saw that the inflation numbers that came out earlier today, seven and a half percent, stated inflation and that’s the government’s number, that’s the one they’re admitting to.
Pete Newsome 07:27
So when you look at it, and this comes up often on our podcasts over the past few months, what we all get to see are the oh, the tables in restaurants, it can’t be seated, because there are no servers, retail stores that can’t open because they don’t have workers.
Pete Newsome 07:47
I mean, that’s what we all see. But that is playing out in corporate locations, it’s playing out across every department that you can think of, we just don’t have as much visibility to it. So those organizations that are adapting, and making it attractive to prospective employees are going to win. Those who aren’t are going to not be able to open their doors, they’re going to not be able to staff.
Pete Newsome 08:10
So I think you have to understand your candidate base and then act accordingly. But the biggest, the most important answer to that question to me is, you have to be willing to change and adapt to the situation at hand. We know being in staffing, not every company is. Some are fighting it tooth and nail, that’s not going to play out well.
Pete Newsome 08:10
I think you have to keep candidates engaged by offering them what they’re looking for. You have to understand what that means first, and then so in many cases, it is compensation related, given the increasing costs that we’re seeing everywhere. But in other cases, it may be in flexibility with work schedule, it may be virtual options to work.
Ricky Baez 09:01
It’s not Pete and I want to touch on something you just said you have to listen to them. That’s something that we kept talking about at the events well, that we have to listen to. But above and beyond listening because that is what everybody’s talking about, is for the people who say no to you, wherever they fall off in that process, ask them why.
Ricky Baez 09:27
Why is this not a great opportunity? Don’t get me wrong, I would love to convince you. But I don’t want to convince you. I would like some information as to why is it and if folks would take stock into that take inventory into that every single time.
Ricky Baez 09:43
Some years are going to go by you’re going to have historical data that you’ll be able to correlate what you’re looking for in correlation with what the market is and what’s happening in the market and then you’ll be able to predict, make some changes before you’re able to look for somebody or interview and not during the process.
Ricky Baez 10:01
What you just said is spot onto what everybody’s talking about. But Pete, everybody told me the same thing, “Ricky, you’re telling me that, yes, we need to be able to listen to what they have to say.”
Ricky Baez 10:12
We have to get our business partners to understand that and it’s much harder to do with a bigger organization where you can’t just adjust compensation, adjust PTO adjust vacation, so it’s possible.
Pete Newsome 10:24
You’re going to have to, right? I mean you can stay stuck in your ways, but you’re going to be your own worst enemy in those situations. We’re seeing that play out, there are companies that are struggling to stay in business right now, because of their inability to act or unwillingness to.
Pete Newsome 10:43
I don’t know where that difference really lies. But generally speaking, I think you’re right. The bigger the company, the harder it is to turn the ship. But you mentioned years of collecting data that’s luxury companies don’t have right now, they have to act faster.
Pete Newsome 11:03
We’ve talked about this a lot with you coming from large organizations to our significantly smaller ones. Yeah, we move a lot faster and that’s probably an understatement.
Ricky Baez 11:14
That is an understatement, Pete. I’m still it’s what nine months into my term? My term, listen to me, what am I an elected official? Nine months into my employment. No, I’m not trust me, I’m staying far away from that venue.
Ricky Baez 11:26
I’m still shocked, right? Just the other day, we had a question that came up and I’m like, I don’t know. Wait a minute, I’m not over there anymore, I’m over here, “Hey, Pete, what you think?” Awesome, let’s make that right.
Pete Newsome 11:41
That just saved you five follow up meetings, committees, polls, surveys, and all that stuff. Right?
Ricky Baez 11:48
You know, one thing I don’t miss, the meeting to plan the meeting. I don’t miss that. I’m glad we wouldn’t do that here, man. So thank you for that.
Ricky Baez 11:57
Alright, so we talked about what we need to do to keep them engaged in the recruitment process. So let’s make believe that we still got somebody, that we have all the employees that we want, right?
Ricky Baez 12:10
We saw in November 4.5 million people left their jobs, the great resignation is still happening. So how can we ensure as business leaders, how can we ensure our employees our current employees will stick with us our current ones who stayed with us in the employees market?
Pete Newsome 12:28
How can you ensure it you can’t? That’s the first thing it’s needed to acknowledge. Employees walk, talk, thank, and form their own opinions. Those opinions are, fleeting they can change day to day. I think that’s how it should be, the employee-employer relationship is not meant to be a marriage.
Pete Newsome 12:52
I mean, in that instance, let’s hope that people go into marriage with a lifelong commitment right? To me, it’s very different than that. It’s a day to day commitment and maybe to some degree, healthy marriages should be that too.
Pete Newsome 13:07
Don’t take either side for granted that’s really the point. So I would say you have to give an employee, I’ll say it a little differently. The employee needs to make a decision every day whether to drive to work or not. The employer has to provide a reason to continue coming, and they continue showing up.
Pete Newsome 13:34
Now, the other side of that coin, of course, is the employee needs to continue to work and behave in a way where they’re going to be invited to continue coming. This really is a symbiotic relationship in that regard. But I think you can’t, and nor should you try necessarily as an employer to force someone to stay.
Pete Newsome 13:58
That’s not realistic anyway. But the right people, you want to make sure you have the right people there. Now, all that aside, the goal should be to give employees a reason and to focus on that. I think it’s natural for there to be a lot of shifting right now.
Pete Newsome 14:21
It’s natural for there to be a lot of changes because every company should be looking internally and deciding are we operating the way that we need to not only survive but to thrive in this changing world?
Pete Newsome 14:37
So there are hard decisions that need to be made along the way, especially because employees are looking for things as I mentioned earlier, beyond compensation, while that’s always a big piece of it, it’s only a piece of it.
Pete Newsome 14:52
So I think that shift is going to be possible and the same thing still applies, as we talked about a few minutes ago, you do want to ask. Ask your employees where do they stand, ask your employees about their future, and what their objectives are. That has to be a big piece of it.
Pete Newsome 15:15
But with so many changes going on, those things aren’t going to necessarily remain aligned. I just think that’s a natural part of the deal. I mean, your job turnover is greater now than ever, because we’re seeing some pretty extreme hiring practices going on with the increased comp.
Pete Newsome 15:35
We see it every day in our business. But um, yeah, I think that it’s just a natural thing that’s happening right now, to some degree. You may not like that answer, though.
Ricky Baez 15:45
No, no, actually, I do because it’s what you’re saying, Pete, is that we got to keep in tune with our current employees. Once we bring an employee on, let’s not forget about that employee, right, let’s continue to talk about what that employee’s career aspirations are.
Ricky Baez 16:02
Is it to move up? Is it to go into a different department? Or just to be an expert on where they are, let the employee become your GPS, right? Or the other way around, you become the GPS, for your employee. The employee puts in where they want to go, and you as a leader, as an organization, should help guide them to see what they like.
Ricky Baez 16:24
As an organization, I personally believe that if we take care of what the employee deems as important to them, they will take care of what’s important to the organization. I truly, honestly believe that.
Ricky Baez 16:40
I’ve seen a lot of situations with a lot of other businesses that just forget about the employee as soon as they woo them in with recruitment practices. So we’re saying the same thing just a little bit differently.
Pete Newsome 16:52
Yeah, I think there are limitations, though, on what is realistic to offer, in terms of if you ask an employee, as I think you should, to your point, to genuinely understand what their goals are, what their objectives are.
Pete Newsome 17:10
If it becomes clear that you can’t accommodate those goals and objectives, that’s okay. It’s not the desired outcome. You know, I said, it’s not a marriage. Well, I’d love to go into every I think we should go into every relationship, intending for it to be the last one that we have.
Pete Newsome 17:30
But you’re not making a lifelong commitment, you’re making a commitment, day to day, I’ve always thought of it that way. Being in contract staffing, it’s really no different than being a direct employee somewhere.
Pete Newsome 17:47
That relationship needs to be evaluated constantly, with both sides, giving the other side reason to maintain it. But there’s going to be a point where it doesn’t make sense to continue it.
Pete Newsome 18:02
I’m a big believer that being honest and open in those discussions is okay. how can I not be I’ve quit every job except for this one. So not every relationship is going to last and you shouldn’t try to force a square peg into a round hole where it doesn’t make sense.
Pete Newsome 18:22
However, within reason, yeah, you want to accommodate each other right? The employee should make concessions and employers should make concessions when it’s done right. That should be it, but you know, people change, situations change, and they’re changing rapidly right now. So turn over as inherit, I think it’s part of the deal.
Ricky Baez 18:41
You know, it’s how you compare this to a marriage is spot on, because where a marriage fails, right? It’s when you don’t do what you say you’re going to do.
Ricky Baez 18:57
If you’re open and honest about everything you’re about to do, you’re going to do or you have done the same thing at work. If there’s a leader who’s having a conversation with an employee trying to fully understand what that employee wants, the employee wants something that’s out of our league that we can’t afford or it’s not our process.
Ricky Baez 19:13
Don’t tell the employee “Yeah, I’ll look into it I’ll make it happen.” And then it doesn’t because that’s a guarantee fail for you. If you say, “You know what, I’m going, to be honest with you Johnny, we can’t do that here.” Here’s why we can’t do it because of finances, just be upfront and honest.
Ricky Baez 19:28
He may not like it right then and there but he’ll know you gave him the right authentic answer. Now if he doesn’t like it, that’s fine. Johnny can leave, right? Johnny can leave and go somewhere else. But I will still try, “Well, I can’t do this for you, Johnny. But what else can I do?”
Ricky Baez 19:42
What can I do within my power to help you with that but if Johnny still doesn’t like it just like a marriage, you can go ahead and leave. Divorce lawyers make a lot of money in this country.
Pete Newsome 19:53
But even though marriages, in theory, the intention is to be till death do us part right? But I think every day, I just celebrated my 26 year anniversary a couple of weeks ago. I realized that every day my wife has a choice. Does she want to stay with me or not?
Pete Newsome 20:12
It’s incumbent upon me to give her reasons to, you know, to stay there. But I also think it’s incumbent upon her to do the same. So, there has to be effort and thought and communication put into the relationship.
Pete Newsome 20:26
I think what we’re both saying is, there’s a point where there may be irreconcilable differences, but be professional, be open, be honest, communicate those, and impart on good terms if that’s what’s necessary.
Ricky Baez 20:43
Well, that goes hand in hand with my next question, right? Because right now, we’re talking about what an organization can do to keep somebody but let’s get more gradual, let’s get more detailed.
Ricky Baez 20:53
So what skill set do you think a leader needs in order to keep an employee engaged? So we were just talking about the organization. But what about the leaders of the organization? What is the most important skill so they can have in their arsenal, where they can keep an employee engaged?
Pete Newsome 21:08
Should we keep the relationship theme going here?
Ricky Baez 21:13
I have a thought process on it. But yes, relationship theme, but I do have a thought process on that.
Pete Newsome 21:16
So same thing that would apply in any healthy relationship, attentiveness, is one. Pay attention to what’s going on, observe, be engaged, you’re present and you’re paying attention.
Pete Newsome 21:34
Ask, it’s simple, that doesn’t always work in marriages, “Nothing’s wrong.” Okay. But, in this setting, the more open dialogue you can have the better. I think that’s universally applicable.
Pete Newsome 22:00
How often it’s done? I don’t really know, probably not as often as it should be. I don’t think you can do it too much, to stay engaged, ask questions, be attentive, and those are the things that immediately come to mind. What would you say to that?
Ricky Baez 22:20
So I’ll start off by saying this, Pete about 10 years ago, I was doing a presentation on generational gaps, right? You know, baby boomers, gen xers, and stuff like that, right? And I’m teaching leaders how to interact with the different types of generations.
Ricky Baez 22:40
Then we stopped at millennials because when I was doing this millennials was the what’s the latest one. Gen Z wasn’t out yet. I mean, it wasn’t even a thought. I don’t even know what the one is right now. What’s the one right now? I have no idea.
Pete Newsome 22:54
I don’t even know.
Ricky Baez 22:56
Yeah, by the way, we’re the only country in the world that does that. No other country does that, generational gaps. It’s just us here in the US, yay.
Ricky Baez 23:03
So look, somebody asked me a question. They’re like, “Ricky, so I want you to I don’t want you to teach us right now, what’s happening right now, I want you to teach us what to expect later on.”
Ricky Baez 23:16
I told the guy, “I don’t know” because I don’t know what that was going to be. Pete, then it hit me, I’m doing it all wrong. I’m not going to teach people how to interact with different communication styles. I want to teach people how to be flexible.
Ricky Baez 23:32
If you’re flexible in your communication, you’re flexible in your empathy, you’re going to be able to tackle anything. So from that point on forward, I’m like, You know what, forget generational gaps, I’m going to start teaching flexibility. Because empathy and flexibility are two things that a leader needs to succeed today.
Ricky Baez 23:51
Flexibility, what does that mean? If a leader grew up in their career with a specific leadership style, they have to fully understand the leadership style they grew up within their career is completely radically different than what they are currently seeing right now.
Ricky Baez 24:07
So the people who are going into the workforce right now don’t have the same style of work or work ethic as they did growing up. So they have these false expectations that they’re going to work how they did, and then they start clashing.
Ricky Baez 24:20
But if you shift that mindset, and you’re like, This is a completely different generation, they grew up differently than I did. I have to be flexible and understanding and empathetic to their needs.
Ricky Baez 24:29
Although I don’t give them the value, they do have to respect the value they give their needs. So there’s the empathy, and flexibility. So to me, that is key for a leader to have.
Pete Newsome 24:41
I think you nailed that. I think that’s a really good answer. That’s the difference between knowing what questions are coming and not.
Ricky Baez 24:52
Wait, we had this conversation on Monday. Well, not you and me over at disrupt HR and that may have been the scotch talking but it worked out pretty good.
Pete Newsome 25:01
You were as smooth on Monday, as you are now? Okay.
Ricky Baez 25:06
Am I not always come on? Alright, moving right along then.
Ricky Baez 25:11
So we talked about recruiting somebody to keep them engaged. We talked about how to keep people here, what leaders need to have this next one I like. And the reason I like this one is because we tend to forget about this group of people.
Ricky Baez 25:25
You interview folks, obviously, you’ve got one position to fail, but you got three or four people who you interview with, and you’re like, man, they’re all awesome. They’re all great. But you can only offer the position to one.
Ricky Baez 25:38
What do you do with the other four? That you cut ties with them? How do you keep them engaged? How do you keep that relationship going with that, with those folks who did not get selected for that position, and you build that network? That way, you’re able to tap on that, on that relationship later on in case a position does come up?
Ricky Baez 25:57
So how do we keep those folks engaged with the relationship with the organization for the position they didn’t get?
Pete Newsome 26:04
It’s hard for me to answer that without answering as a staffing guy, because that is a huge component of our recruiting efforts, when we’re doing it right, to stay in touch with candidates to have a strong pipeline for future opportunities.
Pete Newsome 26:27
So we end up as every staffing company does, filling the same positions, position types over and over. So having a strong candidate pool is a huge advantage in our space. So it’s really incumbent upon us to stay engaged with those individuals who are strong candidates who, as you said, didn’t get selected for whatever reason.
Pete Newsome 26:50
But we think of them as keeping that relationship warm. It’s a really hard thing to do, even in our space, where that’s the sole purpose of a staffing company is to provide the best candidate in quickly, not to drag out. That’s what you guys do, on the HR side. That’s a joke…Not really, kind of.
Ricky Baez 27:10
Pete Newsome 27:20
We just lost some clients I think. Truthfully, we do serve that purpose, by being really efficient, in what we do, because we only recruit, we don’t have all of the other things that come along with being an HR. So there’s a reason why we’re more efficient. But you have to do it.
Pete Newsome 27:45
First of all, you have to plan to do it. That’s number one, you have to have a system and you have to have a strategy. I don’t think it’s a natural thing to do necessarily, because we move on, even when our intentions are good. If we don’t have a plan, we’re probably not going to do it.
Pete Newsome 28:00
So for us, we use tools and we use the technology that’s available to us to keep those candidates aside, so we can stay in touch with them. But it’s conscious, I’ll tell you that it doesn’t just happen by accident. So I think it’s a really important part of the process. And the best recruiters will do it with consistency.
Pete Newsome 28:23
How you do it in corporate HR is a heck of a question because you’re limited on time, to begin with back to a staffing company being more efficient in recruiting because we have blinders on, so to speak, right? We don’t get distracted by other things.
Pete Newsome 28:40
So I don’t really have a great answer to that, Ricky, I think you can’t realistically probably keep in touch with that many people unless you just do it through automated tools.
Pete Newsome 28:49
Which is perhaps impersonal, but effective, where if your goal is to stay in front of those candidates, keep your brand to keep your name, on their mind, then there are no shortage of tools out there that will allow you to have mass planned communication automatically via email, by default. So that’s one way.
Ricky Baez 29:18
Well, you know what, Pete? I’m thinking about this question, right?
Ricky Baez 29:24
You’re right, in corporate America, it’s very different. That would be really time consuming, because of how big of a machine that turns but I think we have a process that even before then even before a candidate is interviewed, we build a profile on a candidate and we keep a database on that.
Ricky Baez 29:39
So even if that person we kept a database on, that person does not get that position, we still got them in the profile. So we’re already ahead of the game here at 4 Corner Resources because we build that profile first. Now obviously, the whole point of that is to make sure we got the right candidate for the right position for the client based on their specifications.
Ricky Baez 29:59
In case that doesn’t work, go right back to the starting point, we’ll go back to the profile, and how I was thinking about it, it is time consuming.
Ricky Baez 30:07
But if we can just put a process together, this is just anybody corporate America as well, put a process together where we have a luncheon, come on in, check out what we got, let’s have a quarterly job fair, where we invite previous candidates on even a round table and ask them questions.
Ricky Baez 30:24
What do you want? What do you want out there? There is a lot of great information out there. That’s kind of the answers that were going around over on the floor at Disrupt HR and I’m like, that needs to be a topic in its own, that really needs to be a topic on its own.
Pete Newsome 30:40
It’s hard to answer out of context too, at least for me, because let’s take your position at 4 Corner, well, there’s only one of you, and we’re not going we don’t have intent, it plans to have a second person in that role anytime soon.
Pete Newsome 31:00
So it would almost be disingenuous in a way to try to keep candidates warm for your role and give them a promise or hope that we may be adding to it anytime soon.
Pete Newsome 31:13
So I think you have to be conscious of what the situation is as well, versus our recruiter roles, which is where if we’re growing as an organization, we’re going to hire with indefinite plans to continue hiring there.
Pete Newsome 31:27
We can only hire so many people at any given time. So in that scenario, it absolutely makes a lot of sense. So now we’re talking about 4 Corner internally, right? 4 Corner the company, not for staffing, yeah, we absolutely want to keep in touch with those folks.
Pete Newsome 31:46
Do we have as good a plan to do that as we do with our candidates for staffing roles? Probably not, maybe we need to improve it. That may be because I totally agree with you that it’s in our interest to keep that pipeline going for sure.
Ricky Baez 32:06
But it is tough, It takes some man hours. So yeah, it’s sweet. People do have to pay for it, though. But you know what, Pete? This next one, it’s not even in the same realm as the first four. But I’m going to ask anyway.
Pete Newsome 32:22
Did you say five questions? So is this it? Is this the last one?
Ricky Baez 32:27
Yeah, last one.
Ricky Baez 32:28
So look, you’ve been doing this for 16 years, you’ve owned this company for 16. So it’s safe to say you’re pretty good at interviewing, right? That’s safe to say right?
Pete Newsome 32:38
Maybe, that’s for someone else to say. But yeah, sure.
Ricky Baez 32:43
Pete Newsome 32:44
Let’s say I’ve done a fair amount of it. How’s that?
Ricky Baez 32:47
Pete Newsome 32:48
So yes, yeah.
Ricky Baez 32:49
Have you ever had a situation with a candidate who is extremely rude to you during the interview process? Like really, like called you a name? Or dropped some F bombs? It was really inappropriate.
Pete Newsome 33:01
Oh, man, I’m sure I have. Nothing immediately comes to mind. I’ve had some candidate can’t certainly be, you know, so. Internally, not immediately comes to mind. I’ve had some bad interviews don’t get me wrong. Some people who just were I don’t know.
Pete Newsome 33:27
I don’t know what they were thinking with some of the things they said.
Ricky Baez 33:29
They were nervous.
Pete Newsome 33:31
No, I think it goes beyond that. Nerves are fine nerves I can deal with but just so there’s some there are some weird things we’ve seen. But I’ve been pulled off on a number of occasions throughout the years where one of the recruiters has experienced that.
Pete Newsome 33:47
I’ve stepped in it’s been a while since that’s happened. But in our earlier days, where I was closer to the day to day of the business, and yep, that would happen. So I will say yes, I have encountered that a number of times, but usually as the next person to come in.
Ricky Baez 34:04
So that’s the question, how do you handle a candidate who is extremely rude in an interview? It reminded me of a situation I had about five years ago, where I was on an interview panel, it was me and my colleague, and the person we were interviewing started to hit on my colleague.
Ricky Baez 34:22
Not just asking her out, but making inappropriate comments about her cleavage, her legs, her body, her mouth, until the point I’m like okay, you know what? We’re going to stop this interview right now. Right now you’re making me feel uncomfortable. I’m not speaking for her. I’m speaking for myself. You’re making me feel uncomfortable.
Ricky Baez 34:39
This is inappropriate, I’m stopping in this interview right now. “Oh, dude my bad. I’m sorry, man. I’m an effing idiot.” No, look, thank you very much for your time. I really appreciate it. We’re stopping right now. Thank you. And he tried to get out of it. But I had no pun intended nip it in the butt right there because I could tell.
Ricky Baez 34:57
I could tell she was really worried and uncomfortable, but she didn’t want to push him away because she knew how badly I wanted to fill this position. But I don’t want this position filled badly enough to where the person I’m working with is being talked down to and uncomfortable at work.
Ricky Baez 35:13
So I just stopped that interview, sent them away. Now, I did have a situation with somebody starting being a little bit too rash on how he handled a situation before because we did ask him, “How do you how do you handle a stressful situation?” He started saying that “I go out back and I punched a wall a little bit I start doing all these things.”
Ricky Baez 35:29
I’m like, yeah, look, dude, we continued with the interview but I threw him a couple of bones because I’m like, look, when your giving us an example, do me a favor, give us an example that doesn’t involve violence.
Ricky Baez 35:42
Now, I may have done myself for this service. Because the more he told us the more information I would have had to not hire that person, which we did not. But I guess I’m saying that because sometimes you can let the person go. But sometimes, depending on making somebody feel I need to stop it right then and there.
Pete Newsome 36:01
We placed just under 1000 candidates last year in 2021. So to get to that point, our recruiters probably spoke to 100,000 candidates throughout the year.
Ricky Baez 36:19
That sounds about right.
Pete Newsome 36:21
So some of the conversations do turn south, there are people who don’t like recruiters, when they call, for various reasons that’ll happen. So it happens with frequency with our recruiters, unfortunately, and now I’m thinking back to my recruiting days, I didn’t know it’s been so long since I’ve been in that seat.
Pete Newsome 36:43
But yeah, I had a lot of rude candidates over the years now that I’m thinking about it. To me, early in the conversation, someone’s going to be on their best behavior. Now we have to give candidates a little bit of a break. Because if when we’re calling them out of the blue, maybe they had a bad day, they’re not expecting, that’s different than an interview, right?
Pete Newsome 37:09
That’s just us calling we have the resume, they may be an introductory phone call. And so we’ve seen that then in actual interviews, it doesn’t happen as often I think it’s more of when communication gets crossed, where perceptions aren’t aligned. There’s confusion, misinterpretation of something. That’s where I’ve seen, these things typically arise.
Pete Newsome 37:35
There’s always going to be a number of just wacky people out there who are just going to be bad seeds, right? We don’t encounter them often. but it does come up. When I said that, someone’s going to be on their best behavior early in a relationship, you have to assume that if they’re going to be rude in an interview, then it’s not going to improve over time.
Pete Newsome 38:00
So we don’t have any real tolerance for that stuff. Like you said, we’re going to end it quickly. We’re going to move on, we’re going to agree that it’s not a good fit, just part ways and end it there.
Pete Newsome 38:24
People make mistakes, no one’s perfect. So we can all give each other a break with those things. But there’s never a reason to be nasty to another person. There’s never a reason to be hostile. There’s never a reason to be aggressive as a reason to use bad language in a professional setting, there are just certain things that are inexcusable.
Pete Newsome 38:49
When you encounter one of those things, the best thing in my opinion to do is just end the relationship or communication phone call, whatever it is as quickly as possible, and just move on with your life, put it in the past.
Ricky Baez 39:01
That’s the best way to approach it, Pete because you know, especially these days where it’s really is a hot market for candidates, right? They have their pick, so you got recruiters that are stressed, they have to fill these positions, people are leaving, they have to fill those positions for the people that are leaving.
Ricky Baez 39:19
I’m not saying this is happening, but I can see this happening from a recruiter’s perspective. They want to make sure they get that requisition fails, the stress, all these things are happening. They may overlook some things to fill that position.
Ricky Baez 39:31
I’m telling everybody listening out there right now. Never tolerate any kind of disrespect exactly how you said, Pete, when you said that this is where they’re supposed to be putting their best foot forward and this is it? It’s not going to get better. I don’t care how stressed you are, don’t bring that person into the organization.
Pete Newsome 39:52
Yeah. If on the first date, your potential spouse is a complete nightmare. You know, they’re probably not going to be the person you marry, right?
Ricky Baez 40:04
Well, some people are like, “Well, you know, I’m 60 I guess he’s a serial killer. Fine. All right, I guess I’ll just keep the knives away.”
Pete Newsome 40:13
No, but what you said is, there’s a lot of truth to this market at times driving bad behavior. While employers are well aware at this point, or if they’re not, they should be that it’s a candidates market, candidates are also well aware of that.
Pete Newsome 40:30
You see some bad behavior that you wouldn’t normally say you wouldn’t have seen in 2008. When our phones were ringing off the hook, not with clients looking to hire but with people who were unemployed, looking for a job. That was an awful situation, and, unfortunately, its supply and demand being what it is creates certain behavior.
Pete Newsome 40:55
But to any candidate who’s listening, don’t burn a bridge, it’s never worth it. If it’s not a good fit, it’s not a good fit. If your a recruiter listening corporate or third party like, Four Corner just end it.
Pete Newsome 41:09
I mean, you can end things quickly without being equally rude. Don’t lose your temper just because someone else is being rude. It’s easier said than done.
Ricky Baez 41:20
Pete Newsome 41:20
But you’ll always be glad that you held on and held your composure.
Ricky Baez 41:26
It’s just happened to me about some time ago, I interviewed a manager for the call floor over for a call center. It was a team manager and he had all the right credentials, but just, Pete, he didn’t do get in the interview right?
Ricky Baez 41:42
So I got this rule, for the final three, I give them a call personally, I don’t send an email, I give them a call and say “Hey, thank you for the interview. I appreciate your time, but we’re going to move with somebody else. Is it okay if I give you some feedback to help you?”
Ricky Baez 41:58
Sometimes that turns out great, sometimes it doesn’t. This guy went off on me, Pete. This guy was like, “You guys are idiots and this and that. You have no idea what kind of a leader I am bla bla bla bla, you’ve made the wrong blank, blank, blank.”
Ricky Baez 42:15
I should let him finish, right? And as soon as he was done, I’m like, okay, so what am I supposed to do with that information now? Am I supposed to say dammit, you’re right. You know what? I don’t know what I was thinking, Joe. Let me go ahead and bring you onboard, right? That is an example Pete, of burning a bridge.
Pete Newsome 42:35
Yeah, I think what you should have said is, “Well, you just solidified that we made the right choice.”
Ricky Baez 42:39
Well exactly, what you’re supposed to do is make me feel bad for not picking you. And by making me feel bad. Is that wow, I really passed up a great candidate. I screwed up. That’s what you’re supposed to do.
Ricky Baez 42:52
But when you prove me, right. And you just go off on a tangent. I have to wonder what is your goal here? Is your goal here to make me change my mind because you’re doing the exact opposite. You’re solidifying the reason why we didn’t pick you. But yeah, I just wanted to share that Pete.
Pete Newsome 43:13
Well, those are hard calls to make, right? You making those phone calls, no one likes to be disappointed and no one likes to lose especially something as significant as a career opportunity. So that’s a really kind gesture to do, and a beneficial one for those who take advantage of it.
Pete Newsome 43:39
I think understanding why you didn’t get hired is a valuable lesson for anyone. I’ve been hired for every job that I’ve applied for or interviewed for. But I want to know why, I used to want to know why over the years, so I can improve the next time and make a change.
Pete Newsome 43:58
If there is an opportunity, as we talked about a few minutes ago, to be considered for the next role that opens up then maybe you have a chance to win the second time around, we don’t like to lose but there are valuable lessons that come with it.
Ricky Baez 44:19
Pete Newsome 44:21
That’s often overlooked.
Ricky Baez 44:22
If anybody out there is listening right now if you’re planning on doing that one crucial piece of information that I didn’t mention that I should mention, if you’re going to do this, if you’re going call somebody give them some feedback, make sure you’re clear up front that a decision has been made, there’s no negotiating at this point.
Ricky Baez 44:39
This is just purely to give you feedback to help you as to what happened, why you didn’t get the role right? If you don’t say that, if you don’t make that clear they’re going to get defensive, “Well I should have said this.” Negotiations are over, this is really for feedback to let you know if you want to take it that’s fine. If not, that’s perfectly okay. We’ll keep your resume to follow for six months and then go from there.
Pete Newsome 45:02
Yeah, the hard calls to make there, it’s hard to make a call and terminate someone. I think the same, the same thing you said applies in that regard, make sure you clearly state upfront that it’s not a negotiation at that point. Very unpleasant thing to do all around, but it’s part of it.
Pete Newsome 45:23
How you conduct yourself in those situations says a lot about who you are as a person, how you would be to work with in the future. It is a really, really, a round world. It’s a small world, but it’s a round world where you never know who you’re going to be encountering next, and in what scenario, you’re going to encounter that person.
Pete Newsome 45:46
I have countless stories about clients becoming candidates, candidates becoming clients, and it really is around the world. It may not seem like that at the moment. But you never know. So always assume that you’re going to want a relationship with that person going forward. Even though at that particular moment, you don’t see it. There’s a good chance that’ll change.
Ricky Baez 46:08
Well, Pete, I’m sure there are a lot of people out there listening right now. Not listening to the show, obviously, but elsewhere, that will challenge you on the world being round, right? A lot of people out there think the world is flat. I heard you say that, I know several people that think that. I’m like really you think the world is flat?
Pete Newsome 46:23
Isn’t Kyrie Irving, one of those people?
Ricky Baez 46:26
I don’t know where that comes from, it’s I don’t know. The world might as well be flat as how odd it is to me.
Pete Newsome 46:34
But you nailed that, Ricky, we’re an hour into this. There are not a lot of people listening, period.
Ricky Baez 46:41
They love us man, they love this outfit right here.
Pete Newsome 46:43
Hey, you and I are talking to each other and maybe my parents at this point.
Ricky Baez 46:53
All right, so that’s the fifth question, Pete. It was a great time over at Disrupt HR Orlando, the next one we have, you’re definitely going to be in the speaker ring. You’re going to love it. You’re going to love it, 4 Corner Resources was represented heavily there. So we really had a blast, over a Monday, and the next one, you’re definitely in.
Pete Newsome 47:12
Awesome, well thank you. This was good, hopefully, I did okay. Did I make the HR cut> Am I HR worthy?
Ricky Baez 47:20
Man, we’re almost an hour entered that means you did a great job because if you didn’t, this would have been over in 10 minutes, Pete.
Pete Newsome 47:25
Ricky Baez 47:26
This would have been over in 10 minutes.
Pete Newsome 47:29
If anyone out there has questions, we’d love to hear from you, Hire Calling at 4cornerresources.com. Any suggestions you have, topics, or just questions, we will address them and answer them. We’d love to hear from you, please rate and review us if you are still hanging around. You must have liked it well enough to do that. And we would appreciate it. So thanks again. And we look forward to talking again soon.
Ricky Baez 47:53
Roger that, folks. Thank you very much for listening. It’s about that time. You guys have a good one, drive safe and good night.
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