How to Properly Rescind Job Offers

Episode 38


Episode overview

Several companies are scaling back their spending, increasing their prices, and pausing their hiring efforts. 

In this episode of the Hire Calling Podcast, Pete and Ricky share tips and strategies for rescinding job offers.  As a consultant with an HR background, Ricky suggests the best approaches to take as a leader that will protect the company’s brand. But then comes the question, if executives are making the decision to separate, why are they making offers in the first place? 

According to Ricky, there are many legalities and approvals that make it too late to form explanations. But externally and internally, communication is the key. Start painting an early picture if possible, so that people can see what is happening and independent department leaders can make decisions sooner. 

If you are a leader needing to make a big choice, whether it is rescinding, laying off, or putting in place a hiring freeze, you are going to want to listen in and take notes on Pete and Ricky’s advice. 

Additional resources

Tips for rescinding job offers

Internally

  1. Be as transparent as possible. Even if there are things you cannot communicate, be open and honest about that.
  2. Have regular meetings. Paint the picture early enough for your employees to see what’s happening. If they are aware of what’s going on, they can make decisions within their own departments to prevent bigger issues later on.
  3. Be sincere and genuine. You’re going to be criticized no matter what, but giving your employees an honest explanation on the steps you took will make this decision an easier pill to swallow.
  4. Give them the time to process. Help them understand what is happening. Deep, consistent, and authentic communication is key with your internal employees

Externally

  1. Rip off the band aid. Be straight up and honest. Don’t waste any time, call them one by one, and tell them you have to rescind their offer.
  2. Extend transition services if you have them. Your brand name is important. Either way, people are going to be upset, but empathy and authenticity need to flourish like never before in these conversations.

Pete Newsome

About Pete Newsome

Pete Newsome is the president of 4 Corner Resources, the nationally acclaimed staffing and recruiting firm he founded in 2005. His mission back then was the same as it is today: to do business in a personal way, while building an organization with boundless opportunities for ingenuity and advancement. When not managing 4 Corner’s growth or spending time with his family of six, you can find Pete sharing his sales and business expertise through public speaking, writing, and as the host of the Hire Calling podcast.

Ricky Baez

About Rick Baez

Efrain “Ricky” Baez Jr. is a published human resources professional specializing in strategically aligning HR competencies to business goals with a down to earth, common sense approach. Ricky is a four- year veteran of the United States Marine Corps and holds a Masters degree in Human Resources (MHR) from Rollins College and an SPHR certification from the Human Resources Certification Institute. Ricky is also a faculty member for the Master of Human Resources program at Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida.

Transcript

Pete Newsome  00:11
You’re listening to the Hire Calling Podcast, I’m Pete Newsome. And this is your source for all things hiring, staffing and recruiting. 

Pete Newsome  00:16
And of course, I’m joined by Ricky Baez. 

Pete Newsome  00:19
Ricky, how are you today on this beautiful Friday?

Ricky Baez  00:22
I can’t believe it’s July already, Pete.

Pete Newsome  00:24
It is July 1, new month, halfway through the year right isn’t it halfway? I think we’re officially halfway now.

Ricky Baez  00:30
I think yeah, I think we are officially halfway into officially 1000 degrees in Central Florida.

Pete Newsome  00:35
Well, it’s been like that since like, March.

Ricky Baez  00:37
I just have to complain about it, man. It helps me deal with it, It doesn’t make it any cooler. 

Pete Newsome  00:46
But it does make you sound old when we’re constantly talking about the weather. 

Pete Newsome  00:46
That is a stage in life of, you know, I think we’re at so let’s move on. Let’s pretend that that’s not the case. 

Ricky Baez  00:53
That’s right. So that’s not the case. And I’m not yelling at kids to get off my lawn 

Pete Newsome  00:53
Exactly.

Pete Newsome  00:59
What we’re going to talk about today is something that is timely and not good. 

Pete Newsome  01:17
Which is the the number of companies that have announced layoffs and hiring freezes and seem to be moving in the wrong direction. 

Pete Newsome  01:26
We don’t have to point out to anyone that things aren’t going as well in the economy as we’d like for them to. 

Pete Newsome  01:35
But now it’s starting to hit in a different way. And once this starts, a lot of things are tied to what comes next. 

Pete Newsome  01:44
So specifically, what’s been on my mind and what we talked about a little bit before coming on today, is the number of companies that are also pulling back job offers.

Pete Newsome  01:57
You know, social media really exposes that now where if that happens, someone can put those companies on blast on Twitter or LinkedIn. And before you know it, everyone knows you can’t do that quietly anymore. 

Pete Newsome  02:10
Have you been hearing about that as much as I have? 

Ricky Baez  02:14
Pete, being in the HR space, you develop a sixth sense, seriously, you start smelling it coming depending on the different actions the organization takes. But, you know, even if you’re not an HR, you can train yourself and do some research. 

Ricky Baez  02:31
So you can start figuring out indicators, even if you’re not in HR to see where the market is going to head. And in any market any point in time, there’s always peaks and valleys. You just have to know what the indicators for the valleys are and for the peaks.

Ricky Baez  02:47
And it’s happening now, I mean just a month ago Carvana I think let go of 2,500 people.

Ricky Baez  02:56
Not two hundred and fifty, it was fifty five hundred.

Pete Newsome  02:56
Wow.

Ricky Baez  03:00
So that’s a big number. 

Ricky Baez  03:02
And then Coinbase in the crypto space also did something similar a couple of weeks ago. And Sears Home Improvement, which is where I used to work. I’ve got some friends that were still there, and they got impacted as well. 

Ricky Baez  03:14
So that is an avalanche that you and I can see six months down the road right now. It’s a little snowflake, and we see what that snowflake is going to become. The question is, what are we going to do about it?

Pete Newsome  03:26
Yeah, I mean, listen to this list I pulled up, you have Meta/Facebook, everyone’s heard of that. That was announced a few months ago. You have Uber, a lot of companies that were flying pretty high not too long ago, right? 

Pete Newsome  03:41
You mentioned Tesla and CVS. CVS, I mean, they’re closely tied to health care. I mean, in a way, but yeah, this is happening. And companies have to manage this, not only for the future employees, but their current employees. 

Pete Newsome  04:01
So I think that’s what I want to talk about a little bit is what companies should do in this situation. 

Pete Newsome  04:09
And the first one is when you have to start withdrawing job offers. So being in staffing, that’s something that I’m knocking on my desk here. We haven’t experienced much. 

Pete Newsome  04:19
We’ve been fortunate we have great clients, but it’s happened every once in a while where we have a candidate who has just received a job offer and in between the offer and that person starting, the offer has been withdrawn. 

Pete Newsome  04:37
And I can tell you, anytime you have to deliver bad news in our world, it’s far from fun. It’s a tough thing to do. 

Pete Newsome  04:46
But nothing is worse to me than that where you have to call someone who’s potentially resigned from their current employment and is in between and say, hey, we have to take it back and being in the middle like we are.

Pete Newsome  05:05
I don’t know if it makes it better or worse, but we can’t even really give a good reason for it. Now, I’ll tell you the few times it has happened, we certainly consider whether that’s a company we’d want to work for going forward who can’t honor that commitment. 

Pete Newsome  05:16
That’s a whole different thing. But I mean, what’s your immediate thought on that? What are companies supposed to do in that situation? It’s awful.

Ricky Baez  05:28
Pete, let me tell you, unfortunately, I’ve had 1000s of these conversations, right? And I say unfortunate because anybody who is involved in any kind of separation conversation from an HR perspective, it’s always uncomfortable. 

Ricky Baez  05:44
It’s always hard to do, right? Because you’ve got to take out what happened. And then, you know, focus more on the human side of it, regardless of what happened. So, yes, do I feel bad when we separate for cost? 

Ricky Baez  05:56
I do, even if it is for cost because at the end of the day, there’s some people behind the scenes that are affected by this, but had nothing to do with what the person did. 

Pete Newsome  06:03
Right.

Ricky Baez  06:03
That’s bad. 

Ricky Baez  06:05
What’s worse is when you got to have these conversations with people who performed, who did a great job, and through no fault of their own now we have to separate. Those are the conversations that really hit me deeply. 

Ricky Baez  06:17
But then Pete, the question comes about from the employees and HR as well, everything, the question comes about. If we have to separate, why are we pulling it? Why are we making offers? And why are we pulling those offers back? 

Ricky Baez  06:32
If the company quote unquote, knew this layoff or these issues, were going to come down the pike? 

Ricky Baez  06:38
And the answer is not as easy as people think. Because sometimes organizations so big and so large, by the time the right hand makes a decision on what to happen It’s probably about a month or so before the left hand, gets the information that already interviewed and already made an offer. 

Ricky Baez  06:55
So there’s a lot of I don’t want to call it red tape. That’s what it is. It’s a lot of approvals and legal needs to take a look at it. And that takes a long time. And that affects the psyche of the employees like wow, what is this organization doing? 

Ricky Baez  07:08
And I think it’s a good idea for HR people and business leaders to take a deep dive as to how long something like that takes. And when you have to communicate and pull offer letters, it comes with an explanation, to let them know.

Ricky Baez  07:25
Right? 

Pete Newsome  07:26
It certainly should, and I think everyone knows why right now. And when I think back to my personal experience, this is time number four. And it really hasn’t happened yet, but reading the tea leaves, like you said, The Sixth Sense, you have it from an HR standpoint, I have it from a staffing standpoint, as I speak with peers and friends around the country. 

Pete Newsome  07:48
Being in Florida, we’re fortunate, but operating a lot in the tech space in IT staffing, I’m hearing the talk, I’m hearing the stories, and staffing companies are all around the country experiencing it. And we are on the front end of this because it’s all about hiring. 

Pete Newsome  08:05
So if something bad is happening, hiring is affected first. But for my personal experience, I think of this a lot in times like this when 911 happened. 

Pete Newsome  08:17
I was in between resigning from the job, and leaving the job that I had. And I was home packing with my one year old when the Twin Towers were hit. And I was getting ready to move with my little family up to Jacksonville to start a new job working for Avaya. 

Pete Newsome  08:39
And I look back now, almost in disbelief that they didn’t pull my job between before starting and I’m forever thankful that didn’t happen. Because I don’t know what would have happened next. It would have been awful. But I was getting ready to move and take this new job. 

Pete Newsome  09:01
They could have pulled it back and they didn’t. I got there, and within probably a couple of months of being there as this was happening all around the country, there were significant layoffs at the organization. And I don’t know how significant they were. It’s been a long time, but there were cuts and reductions and everything changed. 

Pete Newsome  09:19
And that was it, now that I’m thinking about the job that I was hired for it wasn’t exactly the job I ended up doing. But again, they didn’t get rid of me. Like they thought I was valuable in some form or fashion and, man that’s really scary. It just gives me you know, some anxiety just thinking about how fortunate I was when many others aren’t right now.

Ricky Baez  09:42
Well, Pete, that one right there that specific example, the whole world saw that happen, right? 

Ricky Baez  09:48
So the whole world saw that happen. So it’s reasonable to expect that some jobs are going to be affected.

Pete Newsome  09:54
And no way to see it coming right in that particular?

Ricky Baez  10:00
After you see it happen, prior to obviously, you can’t see that happening. 

Ricky Baez  10:03
That has got nothing to do with the economy. But then that happened, it affected the economy, so people should be able to see that coming afterward. 

Ricky Baez  10:13
What’s happening now it’s a little bit more hidden, right? If you don’t know what pulses to check, because obviously, the pandemic happened, it disrupted the supply chain, it disrupted everything. 

Ricky Baez  10:24
And we kind of face it a little bit, it came back booming, but then the pendulum comes back the other way swinging. And we have to expect something coming back. 

Ricky Baez  10:32
But I want to do a quick comparison, Pete, because again, I think understanding the size of the business and how that affects and how decisions are made is crucial. 

Ricky Baez  10:42
I’ll give you a great example. So I own my own consulting company, and things are good right now. So, I have to forecast six to twelve months down the road. And I can easily say I was thinking about bringing on two more people to help me out full time. 

Ricky Baez  10:55
But then I kind of started seeing some things that are not turning out the way they should, because it’s the pendulum swinging hard one way, and it’s starting to slowly come back. 

Ricky Baez  11:04
So I just hired a part time person, I needed two full time people. But since I’m the one hiring, if I’m the one doing everything in this organization, I can easily see that and say, I’m not going to hire any more people. 

Ricky Baez  11:17
Whereas a larger organization, you have a completely different HR department over here and a completely different marketing department there. 

Ricky Baez  11:25
They work in a way that is not independent, well, they are independent of each other. So when a decision is made over here, it comes back on this side, there’s a lot of lag in between. And unfortunately, you do end up in a situation where offers are being made. 

Ricky Baez  11:40
And these candidates are about to become employees, they resigned from other positions. And now the offers pulled and we’re just hoping that these folks who resigned from the other position, did it in a graceful manner where they can come back.

Pete Newsome  11:54
Oh, it’s well they have been replaced. That’s another show. 

Pete Newsome  12:02
And we’ve talked about that, actually, I think not too long ago about the boomerang effect. But you’re 100% correct. 

Pete Newsome  12:10
I think the bigger the company, the harder it is to be agile in a situation like that. I think every company wants to be but just as a matter of practicality, when you’re large and diverse in your operations and spread out, you just can’t. Things don’t flow that quickly. 

Pete Newsome  12:27
When you have your own, you can make a decision on the fly. So for a big company, what’s the message? 

Pete Newsome  12:38
Yeah, that’s what’s interesting. 

Pete Newsome  12:40
So you’ve had to do this, you’re going to get some heat, and rightfully so I mean, whether you think you deserve it or not, you’re the one pulling back a job offer. 

Pete Newsome  12:50
That’s bad form. 

Pete Newsome  12:51
What recommendations would you have on how that should be communicated? I think both externally to the candidate who’s directly involved as well as internally because you have your internal employees probably thinking that’s not how we should be behaving. Like, I don’t feel great about being associated with that.

Ricky Baez  13:14
So let me start with the internal communication first, right? Because that’s crucial, if you screw that up, you run the risk of losing more internal people than you plan to. 

Ricky Baez  13:25
So what I always advise clients, Pete, I always tell them be as transparent as they can and communicate. 

Ricky Baez  13:32
Not fairly, what’s the word I’m looking for? 

Pete Newsome  13:34
Openly? 

Ricky Baez  13:34
Openly and consistently.

Ricky Baez  13:37
Obviously, there are some things that as a business leader, you cannot communicate, right? But be honest about that. Have a town hall, let them know, if you have a town hall every quarter, to let your entire company know how you’re doing financial wise, right, you should be able to start painting the picture early enough so people can kind of see what’s happening. 

Ricky Baez  14:00
And I know some leaders kind of shy away from that because they don’t want to give away too much information. But I tend to think on the opposite side of that spectrum. 

Ricky Baez  14:07
If you communicate consistently, openly, and let them know what is happening, that independent department leaders can make a decision if they have five racks open, maybe we should hold off on that based on what I saw on the town hall. 

Ricky Baez  14:22
Because if there isn’t any town hall, the only thing the business leaders think is I got to fill these racks.

Pete Newsome  14:29
Sorry, keep going but it brings up such an interesting thought. 

Ricky Baez  14:33
So what I suggest is to have regular town hall meetings, and communicate effectively and you’ve got to as an Executive leader, you got to keep your department leaders in line with what’s happening. That way they can make a decision for their departments that will prevent such a big issue later on in case you need to pull back offers. 

Ricky Baez  14:51
That’s internally.

Pete Newsome  14:53
It’s really interesting to me because I think after working with me you realize that I tend to share as much as I can. And sometimes it’s easy to do when things are going well. 

Ricky Baez  15:08
Yeah. 

Pete Newsome  15:11
It’s when things aren’t, and we’ve been in that situation, you know, COVID, when COVID hit, the numbers went from great, business was great. And the economy, it was as strong as it could be, and then the rug was pulled out from under us. 

Pete Newsome  15:27
And I think we lost around 35% of our business, which in our world is the number of contractors we had in the course of about a week and a half, and that’s not good.

Ricky Baez  15:46
My stomach is hurting right now.

Pete Newsome  15:47
You weren’t there. And, you know, it’s even harder when there’s so much uncertainty, what message are we supposed to communicate, when we don’t even know what’s going to happen? 

Pete Newsome  15:58
And I think we were as transparent as we could be about that. But I do always wonder if you can’t do anything about it, you know, what’s the point in raising the alarm to where I’m going to give you a reason to be fearful? Now go back to work.

Ricky Baez  16:21
I mean, I can get how that can come across, right?

Pete Newsome  16:24
Yeah, so I tend to mention this a lot in conversations like this, where I think everything in this situation is done with good intentions, then you have, whether that was a good idea to do is a secondary thought, and then whether the delivery was what you wanted it to be. 

Pete Newsome  16:46
And so I know we were very open about that, I tend to be in any scenario because that’s what I would want as an employee. And that’s how I’ve tried to run the business from day one. 

Pete Newsome  16:58
And even further, one of the reasons I started the company in the first place was to be in the business that I wanted, but couldn’t find as an employee. 

Pete Newsome  17:07
And that meant very open, transparent, honest, and communication, good or bad. But I do see the other side of that coin and realize why companies may want to hold back, when in times where, quite frankly, does no good to communicate bad information. 

Pete Newsome  17:23
Now, the other thing, and this isn’t perhaps more relevant to what you just said, is that when you have a big company, so let’s say I, as the leader at the top, have a message that I think needs to be delivered, I know the way I want to deliver it, I know the tone, I know what the delivery should be. 

Pete Newsome  17:44
And then I have to pass that down. And I pass it down to the next layer. And I’m talking big companies, Ford, you know, laid off or announced layoffs and Facebook, these are massive organizations. 

Pete Newsome  17:57
So by the time that meant the telephone game, being what it is. What’s actually being delivered? 

Pete Newsome  18:05
You know, if you have, I’m going to make this number up, you’ll 50 different directors, or in cases like these organizations, VPS. And then you go down to hundreds of managers delivering messages to their team. How consistent is that going to be? 

Ricky Baez  18:20
Well, there’s the issue, because this is where we started playing that we should have done this game. We should have done this, we should have done that. But it all comes down to this, the person at the top needs to and this is going to rub some people the wrong way. 

Ricky Baez  18:36
So put your seatbelt on folks, the people at the top need to surround him or herself with people they truly trust number one, and number two, they’re not afraid to give that person bad, not bad information but bad news. Here’s why that’s important. 

Ricky Baez  18:54
Because if the leader at the top has a circle of leaders, a circle of lieutenants that are there for the right reasons, they are going to know how to convey that message from you to the people under them. And if the people under them have the same mentality of surrounding themselves with the same caliber of people. 

Ricky Baez  19:13
They’re going to know what kind of message they’re sending down the pike. Now, this is something that it takes years to construct, right? 

Ricky Baez  19:21
But if we practice that now, when things are going well, and start putting those things in place when it hits the fan, then the machines already running. 

Ricky Baez  19:31
You’re 100% right, Pete, how do you ensure that the message the CEO is supposed to send gets to the front line in the same manner that the CEO intended to communicate it, to begin with? 

Ricky Baez  19:42
And that is if the leaders at each level of that organization have the right leaders in place that know how to translate that message from the leader down to the people below them to put them into action. 

Ricky Baez  19:53
I know that’s not the answer people want to hear right because it’s happening now. 

Ricky Baez  19:57
So well, Ricky, we should have done this a year ago. 

Ricky Baez  20:01
Let’s start doing it now. So when it happens again, because folks, it will, right? It’s every, season that has this peak and valley. So let’s just learn from these valleys and get ready for the next peak. 

Pete Newsome  20:12
So you’re the guy on top of a 20,000-person organization, with dozens of VPs and hundreds of directors and managers, and you think that strategy, you think that message is going to be similar as it goes down? 

Pete Newsome  20:12
Even if you hand picked all the people, which you wouldn’t have, right, you probably wouldn’t even at this point, you don’t even know most of the managers or directors? 

Pete Newsome  20:26
It’s just reality. 

Pete Newsome  20:27
And I wonder if that’s better than that CEO or president of the company, just going out directly and putting out a video or getting on Zoom. But then I see that I mean, it’s terrifying when you see these CEOs like there was one recently who went on Zoom and basically delivered a message. I can’t remember some startup tech company.

Ricky Baez  20:56
I remember that vividly. Because I use that example in class. Oh, I don’t want to put it out there, If it’s not true. It was an online mortgage company. And I thought, well, this is the one who went, it was right before Christmas, I think right? He went on and he said that he was crying or something he let like 900 people go over?

Pete Newsome  21:31
Yeah, there’s been a few that does it. But that, yeah, the guy crying.

Ricky Baez  21:36
Let’s talk about that because I think the public got mad at him for the wrong reasons when it comes to that. There’s something else that he said in that video because he accused people of stealing time because they were not working efficiently.

Pete Newsome  21:48
Wow. That’s kicking them when they’re down. That it’s probably not a good idea.

Ricky Baez  21:56
Yeah, that is not a good idea to do. But the other thing, people were mad at him because he let them go over Zoom.

Pete Newsome  22:03
Okay, so let’s talk about that because I think in a situation like what we’re talking about now if I have to deliver bad news, as the leader of the organization and granted with 35 internal employees at 4 Corner, it is a very different organization than one with 900. 

Pete Newsome  22:24
I mean, that goes without saying, but still, I feel it’s my responsibility to do it. I don’t want to pass the buck on something like that. I feel that you know, what if bad news, and in this case, the worst kind of news has to be delivered? 

Pete Newsome  22:37
Yeah, I don’t want to be a weasel and pass it on to someone else. That’s the easy out to me where I’d rather get on, in this case, Zoom. I mean, that’s what I would want to do. Are we going to fly them all in for that discussion? 

Pete Newsome  22:52
I mean, really?

Ricky Baez  22:54
You and I are on the same sheet there. Right? Because what other way could he have done it other than fly them in?

Ricky Baez  23:00
Where that’s not cost effective at all.

Pete Newsome  23:03
And beyond terrible for all these people who that would happen to.

Pete Newsome  23:07
I mean, we’re laughing because that’s what we do. But it’s a terrible situation. So you think well, am I supposed to send them an email? No, that’s callous, that’s impersonal. And yeah, I don’t know. I don’t. 

Pete Newsome  23:27
We should go back and do this research, perhaps because there were a lot of complaints and a lot of people upset on social media, who were affected by this and felt it was impersonal and maybe if it was just about the pay, they kicked us while we were down and insulted us in the process. 

Ricky Baez  23:42
I agree that is not the way to do it. But I got to say, there’s a lot of people out there that yes, they are really upset that he did it over Zoom. But what’s the alternative? Right? 

Ricky Baez  23:55
So I want people to put on that other hat. The alternative is to have individual conversations. That’s not efficient. Right? The alternative to fly them in, that’s kind of cruel, right? I’m going to disrupt your whole life. You got to get a babysitter. You got to do all these things. You can’t go to the baseball game. You got to come in. All right, I’ll fly first class and fly you back on the coach.

Pete Newsome  24:18
Well not fly you back at all, in this case.

Ricky Baez  24:21
You’re taking Uber. Here are five bucks.

Pete Newsome  24:25
Yeah, so okay, so don’t do that. I don’t know what the message would be. If we’re trying to give good advice to someone else other than being sincere and genuine. I mean, that’s the best you can do. And then understand and this is what I have to accept and you have to accept it. 

Pete Newsome  24:45
You’re going to start hiring employees with your consulting practice that you’re going to be criticized no matter what. I mean, look at Pete Carroll. 

Pete Newsome  24:56
To use a sports analogy. He wins the Super Bowl, I was I think the national championship coach when he was at USC, I think they won at least one. 

Pete Newsome  25:05
When he was there, they certainly were dominant. Yeah, he gets his team to the Super Bowl for the second year and calls a play that the armchair quarterbacks don’t like. 

Pete Newsome  25:15
And suddenly he’s terrible and he gets ripped for and I’m thinking, it’s Pete Carroll. 

Ricky Baez  25:20
I don’t understand, yeah, he’s a human being who puts on his pants one leg at a time. 

Ricky Baez  25:27
Let the guy make a mistake, right. But I got to tell you, Pete, I have a way where this other guy, the guy who did that ties Zoom, could have made it in such a way that he would have come out a winner, right? 

Ricky Baez  25:42
In comparison, here’s what he should have done. Pete, his idea of doing a video 100% spot on how the video was delivered was the worst thing he could have done. So I think if anybody’s thinking about doing something like this here in the next couple of months, which let’s be honest, is coming, right people get ready it is coming. 

Ricky Baez  26:02
The CEO should do a Zoom meeting but carefully vetted to make sure it comes across as sincere. It comes across like, look, here’s everything we try to do to prevent this from happening. And I’ve been involved in those conversations of the process because the number one thing business leaders do when it’s time to cut is to let go of positions that are opened and not filled. 

Pete Newsome  26:25
Right.

Ricky Baez  26:26
Affect the people as least as possible. You’ve got that first right. see what happens to keep cutting. If you explain that to folks, It’s an easier pill to swallow. They’re still not going to like us, they’re not going to have a paycheck, right? But later on, right? 

Ricky Baez  26:43
There’s no other better way to send that message other than having a meeting every quarter. And nobody’s going to be surprised. Real quick, then, my team over at Sears when we all got to let go. My team was ready, nobody was shocked. Nobody was surprised because in every meeting I always told them, folks, this company does have financial issues.

Pete Newsome  27:04
And they knew they worked for Sears.

Pete Newsome  27:12
In the 2000s.

Ricky Baez  27:14
Back when it was, yeah. But I always told my team, always have their resume ready. You never know when that hammer is going to come down. It’s not something you want to hear. 

Ricky Baez  27:24
But if I’m going to be your leader, we’re going to work together, I will be ready, I will not be comfortable working with guests knowing this is a thing. And you guys think you’re going to be here forever because that’s a fallacy. 

Pete Newsome  27:36
Look, if you’re being genuine, then that is advice you should give all the time not because you’re afraid something’s going to happen. But because everyone will leave for something, right? It’s if that something is an opportunity, they can’t turn it down. 

Pete Newsome  27:55
And we all have that no matter how loyal we are. I do too. It is the kind of thing that I’ve said for years, although this isn’t going to stand the test of time, I’d probably pick another team right now. But I’ve always said If Bill Bellacheck calls and says, hey, I need you for Sunday. 

Pete Newsome  28:12
I’m in, that moment I’m walking, doesn’t matter what else is going on. And I’m suiting up and I’m playing for the Patriots. If that call comes right. 

Pete Newsome  28:23
Yeah, this calls not coming. 

Pete Newsome  28:25
So it’s easy for me to say and I met, I think there are very few things that would allow me, it would put me in that situation. Other than some crazy scenario like that. So I’m fortunate to be there. 

Pete Newsome  28:37
But if you look around at most people who haven’t yet found that thing that you’d have to tear them away from, and you should always be looking to some degree at least with one eye, maybe not both. 

Pete Newsome  28:52
But keep your options open. And I think that’s a great point. It’s a little off topic for what we’re doing. And we could do a whole show on that as well. So let’s bring it back for a second. 

Pete Newsome  29:05
And really what I wanted to hear your take on is, you have a job phrase, the words come down from the top that hey, you have to pull any offer that’s out there right now. 

Pete Newsome  29:19
How do you deliver that message, again, externally as well as internally to make it sound something less than the awful situation that it is or make people feel as good as I won’t say feel good? Because no one’s going to but yeah, less bad?

Ricky Baez  29:37
Less? Yeah, that’s the worst way to put it. That’s the best way to put it. 

Ricky Baez  29:40
How do you communicate that less bad? 

Ricky Baez  29:42
So let me talk about the external folks first, right, because I’ve had to do that. And the best way to approach that Pete is to rip off that band-aid, right? 

Ricky Baez  29:51
Don’t waste any time, call them in one by one, right, and just say, look, we made this offer. I’m sure you have seen that this organization is having some issues financially, and because of that, we do have to make a difficult decision to rescind your offer. I know that’s going to create an issue for you with your family and the previous organization. But we do have to rescind this offer at this time. 

Ricky Baez  30:16
Now, I’ve had that conversation more often than not, some people understand and some people are really upset. And I’ve found that the people that are really upset are the people who didn’t leave properly. But, if you are in a position to help these folks out. And here’s what I mean, some companies are big enough, right? 

Ricky Baez  30:37
When they do a layoff, they provide transition services that are already built into their budget. If you’re in a position where you have transition services available, and anybody you speak to, let them know, you’re rescinding the offer and they can go back, why not extend those transition services to them? 

Ricky Baez  30:56
You’ve disrupted their lives, or it’s not on purpose. But because of this happening, they resign from the other position. So if you’re in a position to do that, why don’t you help them out in that way? A lot of business leaders would think, well, I’m not going to waste my resources on that, right, I get it. Your brand name is important. 

Pete Newsome  31:14
Yep.

Ricky Baez  31:14
Your brand name is crucial. So I would much rather have a candidate who is supposed to be an employee, but now they’re not talking about how well we took care of that process, how we were authentic, how we were compassionate, we were empathetic. 

Ricky Baez  31:31
And we helped them out versus them just really upset and bashing us on Facebook and social media, to say how horrible we handled it. Either way, some people are going to be upset, but the empathy and the authenticity need to flourish like never before in those conversations, just be straight up and honest and pull that bandage off really quickly.

Pete Newsome  31:51
And I think that is good advice that you can possibly give, even though it’s not a great message and a good scenario, but that is making it less bad. 

Ricky Baez  32:06
People are going to get mad either way. 

Ricky Baez  32:08
It’s not to say where this happened. But I had to do that one time and the employee, the candidate on the way out, because he happened to be there collecting some stuff to get ready to start, we had to deliver that message and started destroying the stuff on the way out the office and like, alright, well, he’s definitely not coming back.

Pete Newsome  32:30
Yeah.

Ricky Baez  32:31
So that’s 1%, right? Most of the people, they’re like, you know what, we get it, we’re upset, but we understand, we’ll figure it out. It’s the best you could possibly do in that horrible situation.

Pete Newsome  32:43
So internally, right now you have people who see that on social media, see how their company when the complaints happen, and think, oh, man, I’m working for this organization that is uncaring, cold, and callous, whatever you want to say. And my message there is always kind of the same, which is, that no one intends to be bad. 

Pete Newsome  33:10
No one intends to do the wrong thing. So when I repeat that, often, as I do in these conversations, I do really mean it and I tried to put myself in those shoes, I can’t compare, I don’t know. Unless you’ve been a leader of a very large organization, those considerations are certainly different, right? 

Pete Newsome  33:34
You know, when your public facing and your household name, those things add a whole level of complexity, I just don’t have an experience. 

Pete Newsome  33:42
But I do certainly understand what it’s like to care about your reputation, to want to protect it at all costs and, to know that you want to behave the right way. 

Pete Newsome  33:54
And I just can’t fathom that any leader intends to do things wrong or improperly. 

Ricky Baez  34:02
Right.

Pete Newsome  34:02
As it relates to other people, regardless of the delivery and the message and how it comes across. So there’s a big difference between what message is given and how the message is received. 

Pete Newsome  34:13
It’d be nice if those things were in line, but that’s just not the nature of communication between people. 

Pete Newsome  34:20
But internally, I would be as worried about that as anything else to say, hey, look, this is how we have to act. It’s certainly not representative, of how we’d like to act and not who we are. But that’s easier said than done. 

Pete Newsome  34:33
Because the reality you’ve offered someone a job and now you’re taking it away. 

Pete Newsome  34:38
Yeah, that sucks. Right? You can’t put lipstick on that pig really.

Ricky Baez  34:49
You can’t, and Pete, thank you for saying that piece. Thank you for that because not every leader focuses on the internal folks, right? Because some leaders and I’ve seen this, not all but some leaders, you know, when it comes to that they take the tone of, well, they should just be happy they didn’t get cut. 

Ricky Baez  35:07
And I guess I understand that that’s not the route I will take. So for the leaders that are in a difficult position of rescinding offers for the leaders that are in a difficult position of letting people go, now, more than ever, you’ve got to take a deep dive into the remaining talent, and not forget about them at all. 

Ricky Baez  35:28
Because here’s what happens, If you don’t talk to your remaining talent, here’s what human beings do human beings makeup, in their own mind, what’s going to happen, what’s going on. And I’m willing to bet 99.9% of the time is not going to be a positive, fair thought process. 

Ricky Baez  35:45
So as a leader, you’ve got to get ahead of that. So as soon as you have to announce something like that, set up a meeting with everybody, you know, that’s still there. 

Ricky Baez  35:57
If they need time to process, give them the time to process. Because they’re scared, they don’t know if they’re next, they don’t know if they might be embarrassed to work for an organization that does something like that. 

Ricky Baez  36:10
So they wouldn’t be as embarrassing if you explain how the process went, it is not a perfect process. 

Ricky Baez  36:15
But people who understand what happened, whether they agree with it or not, will be better apt to really accept what happened if somebody explained to them how we got to this point. 

Ricky Baez  36:28
But as that leader, again, that same compassion, the same empathy has to come out to let them know, first of all, thank you. Because you had to make two choices to work at this organization. 

Ricky Baez  36:41
Number one, you decided to come on board. Awesome, thank you. Number two, you decided to stay on board. That’s a decision you make. And I thank you for that. 

Ricky Baez  36:50
And you’ve got to make them feel welcome, not welcome. Appreciate that process. Because if you decided they’re not the ones to be cut, that means you decided that’s an important position in the organization. And you don’t want that important position to be vacated because of a lack of communication. 

Ricky Baez  37:08
So deep, consistent, authentic communication is key with your internal folks.

Pete Newsome  37:13
That’s a great point, Ricky, as always, it really gets to the heart of what matters in a situation like this. And it’s the way it’s really treating others as you’d like to be treated, considering all perspectives and all sides, and then doing what you think is best, right? Just take the route that you think is best. And listen, man, there’s got to be some tough tales. T-a-l-e-s, coming in, maybe both? I don’t know. 

Ricky Baez  37:52
Why did you spell it? Oh, got it.

Pete Newsome  37:56
Well, yeah, our conversations go in strange places, really more often off camera. But there’s going to be some sad stories. There are going to be some rough things happening in the foreseeable future as we see it. 

Pete Newsome  38:12
What’s fascinating to me is I pay attention, I try not to more and more lately, but when you see the press conferences happening from the president’s office right now. 

Pete Newsome  38:30
They’re still saying the economy is strong, even this week. And I’m thinking you’re not doing anyone. First of all, no one believes you in that regard. Right. I mean, and not to make it about politics. But like, we should be preparing, I think for this. 

Pete Newsome  38:50
And it’s irresponsible not to, to some degree where don’t pretend things are rosy when they’re not, no, no one wins. You may feel good at the moment. But if I was worried right now about the future of our business, I would say the foreseeable future, right, what I could see coming. 

Pete Newsome  39:13
I’d communicate it to a certain degree. I don’t want to raise alarm unnecessarily as we talked about earlier. But I say at the very least I wouldn’t say the polar opposite of what the situation is. 

Pete Newsome  39:26
I mean, I may say nothing, if I don’t know. But things aren’t good. Right now, in terms of the near term outlook and we know this is coming at least that’s my take. Do you agree with that?

Ricky Baez  39:39
Here’s how I take it. What’s coming out of the administration right now they’re talking about right this second. So right this second? Are things better than before? Like maybe this time a year ago workwise? They could be but that’s right this second. 

Ricky Baez  39:55
The mistake that I see that’s happening is we’re not talking about the future outlook. So you keep focusing on how great things are right this second, people are going to start putting down their guard. And they should not. 

Ricky Baez  40:06
They should not put their guards down, they should really pay attention to how far the pendulum is going one way and is going to come back. So yeah, it’s going okay now, I mean, but what’s going to happen six months down the road? 

Pete Newsome  40:19
I guess in terms of open jobs, if you just want to look at that there are more open jobs now than then we’ve had, I think ever in our history. I would argue, though, 

Ricky Baez  40:31
What does that mean?

Pete Newsome  40:31
I would argue that’s not necessarily a good thing is I think too many open jobs is a very bad thing, work can’t get done, things can’t get shipped, and things can’t be made. And so there’s a balance, and we’re too far. 

Pete Newsome  40:47
In one way, and it doesn’t really matter if the jobs aren’t those that will allow people to absorb the price increases of food and shelter and gas, which, you know, so that’s what when I say no one believes that story. 

Pete Newsome  41:03
Because they have to go to the gas pump, they have to go to the grocery store, they have to pay rent. And if you do all those things, you quickly realize that it’s not going in your favor right now. 

Ricky Baez  41:16
Pete, do you know what, I promise this question has to do with this.

Ricky Baez  41:21
Do you know what’s the best way to not eat hotdogs to stop eating hotdogs? I know you’re like what is it your you’re asking? What’s the best way to stop eating bad foods or foods that are bad for you like hotdogs?

Pete Newsome  41:34
I don’t? I don’t know, Ricky.

Ricky Baez  41:35
Go to the supermarket right now and see that price tag. Oh my god, I spent $9 on a pack of Nathan’s hot dogs. $9. 

Pete Newsome  41:48
For eight hotdogs?

Ricky Baez  41:50
I was about to have a heart attack.

Pete Newsome  41:53
Not in a bun?

Ricky Baez  41:54
Uncooked in the package. So hearing you talk about the economy hearing you talk about inflation, right? I just had to throw that in there because I’m with you. From an inflation perspective, things are not good. They’re not good at all. All these jobs are open. 

Ricky Baez  42:13
And now we can argue whether the jobs, pay reasonably or not. Because Are they open? Because we don’t have enough workers or we do have enough workers, they’re just not willing to take the job? 

Ricky Baez  42:26
That’s another different conversation. But then you combine that with how the inflation is right now. So I’m agreeing with you things are not as good as the administration is making it out to be what people gotta get ready for that. 

Ricky Baez  42:39
And I think from an administration perspective, the better message would be, look, yeah, these jobs are open, but we got to buckle down, and we got to get ready. There’s a valley coming in. We just need to be ready for that. But as Americans like everything else, we’ll get through it. Yeah, we will get through it. But that’s the message I’m getting. Right. So I’m with you.

Pete Newsome  43:00
So let’s, it is off topic for today. And we think we just lost everyone at the hotdogs.

Ricky Baez  43:11
No, we did it because you’re like that’s right, Ricky, there are $9 over at Publix. 

Pete Newsome  43:16
You’re right. And by the way, no one was still listening at this point anyway.

Pete Newsome  43:18
But so let’s do this. For our next show, let’s talk about this idea of job openings. And people do not quote wanting to work, which I hear often that people say, people don’t want to work. 

Pete Newsome  43:35
Well, okay, let me just say, yeah, I’m one of them. I don’t want to work. I would love to be on the beach all day. You know, having grapes fed to me if that’s a thing, I don’t even like grapes, but probably Doritos, in my case.

Ricky Baez  43:54
There we go. Now we’re talking.

Pete Newsome  43:57
But that, okay, we work out of necessity. And hopefully, we can find things to do that we enjoy that get’s us excited to do. 

Pete Newsome  44:06
I am a big believer in that. So by all means, if anyone’s listening, check out zengig.com, which is going live today on July 1, you’ll see our new brand that intends just that exists to help people find those jobs that really, they can be passionate about. 

Pete Newsome  44:23
But most of us haven’t found that yet. And so we have to work and so in doing so we want to earn as much as we can in a fair way in an environment that we like and that we can grow and learn from hopefully but companies who have job jobs going unfilled, it’s because you’re not paying enough. 

Pete Newsome  44:44
I mean you’re not offering the right pay. You’re not offering the right benefits. You’re not offering the right work environment, whatever it might be, but that is supply and demand at its finest and that is working and so the challenge is how do we reconcile that? 

Pete Newsome  45:02
So let’s talk about that later. Because that gets me a little fired up sometimes.

Ricky Baez  45:09
Oh, next week, that’s a topic for next week. 

Pete Newsome  45:11
Well, I will actually be at the beach next week though. Eating the Doritos, I’ll feed myself.

Ricky Baez  45:20
Show maybe a video of a hand coming in. Of you eating a Dorito, there are four bucks.

Pete Newsome  45:27
Or hot dogs, but I can’t afford to do that for the video. And I don’t think I want that on video anyway, but anyway.

Ricky Baez  45:34
Let’s budget. 

Pete Newsome  45:36
Let’s say goodbye for now. So companies, be honest, be open, be transparent as much as you can be. 

Pete Newsome  45:44
But above all else, be genuine and put yourself in the shoes of that person who you know, has just been put in a bad situation, by having that offer rescinded. Try to avoid it at all costs.

Pete Newsome  45:57
But when you do, try to be the best version of yourself that you can be and deliver the message and see what you can do to make up for it, and just you know, it’s the best I can offer during these tough times ahead.

Ricky Baez  46:12
And I’ll leave on this note. So leaders exactly how Pete said it be genuine and be authentic. More importantly, be human, be human. And let those empathetic skills show. 

Ricky Baez  46:29
Because even one or two employees are still going to be upset, don’t focus on those focus on the other 90% that really work hard for you guys, and make sure that you do the best you possibly can from a human being perspective, from a leader perspective to make sure that transition that they have is as smooth as possible. 

Ricky Baez  46:47
Trust me, trust me. You will be the topic of conversation at dinner at night. how that conversation goes it depends entirely on you and how you deliver that message.

Pete Newsome  46:57
Perfect, great way to close everyone thank you for listening, and drive safe. Please rate review us if you can. We’d love feedback hirecalling@4cornerresources.com. 

Pete Newsome  47:06
We’d love to hear from you. And I look forward to speaking again next time Ricky thanks so much.

Ricky Baez  47:11
Thank you, sir. Have a good one. If anybody’s out there that has a Groupon for Nathan’s hot dogs please email it to me.

Pete Newsome  47:15
Happy Fourth everyone. Goodbye.

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