How to Avoid Quiet Quitting and Quiet Firing

Episode 45

Episode overview

The workforce is not what it used to be, but one thing remains constant: communication is key!

Join Pete and Ricky on this episode of the Hire Calling Podcast as they discuss the latest issue in the workplace, quiet quitting and quiet firing. Diving deep into these two new controversial issues, Pete and Ricky explore what they are and how to avoid them. Stemmed from social media’s influence, employees are consciously restricting to match minimum job requirements, while employers have resorted to exasperating their workers. 

Why is this happening, and what can individuals and organizations do about it? Tune in to find out and take note of Pete and Ricky’s advice to avoid this situation yourself! 

33 minutes

View transcript

Additional resources

Tips for avoiding quiet quitting and quiet firing

  1. Respect your employees’ time. Communicate your expectations upfront and there will be no room for complaints. By setting the tone in the interview, you can proactively bring in people who want to be part of the mission.
  2. Give your employees the tools they need to succeed. If they aren’t performing, teach them. And if that doesn’t work, cut the losses. You reap what you sow. If you’re treating your employees badly, as an employer, they’re going to quit and you are going to have a difficult time retaining any staff and attracting new talent.
  3. Get to know your employees so you know who to guide. Be clear of what success looks like in your organization and what doesn’t. Hold your employees accountable to that standard and it will be clear which path they choose.
  4. Do some self reflection. Ask yourself what is wrong with your environment. Success in an organization requires a mutual understanding of the relationship and a mutual caring for the bottom line. Communication is key. 

Pete Newsome

About Pete Newsome

Pete Newsome is the president of 4 Corner Resources, the nationally acclaimed staffing and recruiting firm he founded in 2005. His mission back then was the same as it is today: to do business in a personal way, while building an organization with boundless opportunities for ingenuity and advancement. When not managing 4 Corner’s growth or spending time with his family of six, you can find Pete sharing his sales and business expertise through public speaking, writing, and as the host of the Hire Calling podcast.

Ricky Baez

About Rick Baez

Efrain “Ricky” Baez Jr. is a published human resources professional specializing in strategically aligning HR competencies to business goals with a down to earth, common sense approach. Ricky is a four- year veteran of the United States Marine Corps and holds a Masters degree in Human Resources (MHR) from Rollins College and an SPHR certification from the Human Resources Certification Institute. Ricky is also a faculty member for the Master of Human Resources program at Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida.


Pete Newsome  00:13
You’re listening to The Hire Calling Podcast. I’m Pete Newsome and this is your source for all things hiring, staffing, and recruiting. 

Pete Newsome  00:20
I’m joined today, once again by Ricky Baez. And it is a Friday morning, Ricky, you’re happy. You’re smiling. You’re going off for a three day weekend. How are you today, buddy?

Ricky Baez  00:31
I am ecstatic. Do you smell that? Pete?

Pete Newsome  00:37
Yes, I do. Do I? We’re not together. So I’m not sure.

Ricky Baez  00:43
Just letting you and everybody else know, that it’s football season. 

Pete Newsome  00:46
Ah, it is! 

Ricky Baez  00:49
Oh, man, my Monday nights are filled with joy again. My entire day on Sunday is filled. Yeah, actually, from Thursday, all the way to Monday. It’s gonna be great until the end of the year. So I’m just excited.

Pete Newsome  01:00
Yeah, my Seminoles are going to play LSU this weekend. That should be interesting. So we’ll see what happens. But no NFL yet. We have to wait a week, right? 

Ricky Baez  01:11
We do. We do. But it is there. It’s there. All right it’s happening. We got a holiday weekend coming up Labor Day, which marks the end of summer, the beginning of fall, quote-unquote, from Florida, it just means you know, just another summer coming up.

Pete Newsome  01:26
I know. That’s why I’m wearing my white sweatshirt. 

Ricky Baez  01:30
Do it up until Monday. Yeah, then after Monday you can’t do anything. Right?

Pete Newsome  01:33
I actually did think of that. I’m not sure why that’s a rule like you said in Florida. But Florida, go figure. So today, I had you on the finding career zen podcast this morning. 

Pete Newsome  01:49
Normally, we do Hire Calling together. But you had mentioned a topic to me quiet quitting, which is talked about way too often these days. I didn’t know what it was two weeks ago, and I’ve heard it a dozen times or more in the past two weeks. So let’s start with what is quiet quitting and talk about this.

Ricky Baez  02:14
So quiet quitting. I’m with you, before two weeks ago, I’m like, I don’t know, I knew quiet wasn’t quitting was when they didn’t know what it was together. And it’s a topic that came up in class. 

Ricky Baez  02:23
And at the end of the day, quiet quitting is when an employee in general, is tired of going above and beyond for the organization or any organization that they decide just to show up to work and do exactly what the job description says. 

Ricky Baez  02:41
They’re doing just enough not to get fired, which I think is a mistake. It’s a huge mistake, I completely understand why the employees are thinking that route. But I think it’s a mistake in the long run. But that’s why quiet quitting is a trend. Social media is making that a trend. And it’s something we have to address. 

Pete Newsome  02:59
So there’s a lot of folks out there recommending that it’s a good idea to stick it to your employer, so to speak, to do what they don’t even, maybe they don’t even view it as sticking it to their employer, maybe they view it as justified.

Pete Newsome  03:01
That’s a word we talked about on the other show that, you know, it’s giving what you get, and no more, even though we could probably talk for hours about how careful you really have to be if you’re doing anything that’s nonwork-related at work, you’re probably violating your own logic at this point, right? 

Pete Newsome  03:38
I’m only doing what’s on your job description, I’m pretty sure checking, you know, Facebook 20 times a day, which we all do, right? I mean, not 20. But I don’t know anyone who doesn’t look at social media at some point during the day. 

Pete Newsome  03:52
And that’s just because if you are spending so much time at work, it’s natural and normal to do right to be distracted to some degree, hopefully not too much by your personal life, right, your life doesn’t stop while you’re at work. 

Pete Newsome  04:11
And so I think the inverse has to be true where employees need to realize that sometimes the day doesn’t end exactly at five o’clock, and that’s okay, or 5:30 or 6 or whatever your scheduled time is. 

Pete Newsome  04:27
And if you want to do everything by the letter of the law, you have to report yourself, I think to some degree, and most people don’t like the other side of that coin.

Ricky Baez  04:37
Pete, I think these is a couple of good points for me to state. What I meant by I understand where they’re coming from, right because there’s always a reason for these things to pop up. 

Ricky Baez  04:50
And, you know, for the longest time there’s been this big idea out there that corporate America or the employers don’t care about people’s time, they just want to get as much time out of them as possible, which that’s not 100% true, right? 

Ricky Baez  05:05
Yeah, corporate America needs talent. Corporate America needs people to move the needle from A to B. But there are some organizations that abuse that. And the reason I’m saying this is I understand where they’re coming from because if you have an employee that worked for an organization then I get, why they feel the way they do, but where the mistake comes in, is to treat your next employer, based on your experience from their previous employer.

Ricky Baez  05:31
Right, because your next employer could have been the best. They could have been the one organization you’re going to spend the rest of your career in, right? And if you go in there, saying, I’m just gonna go and do exactly exactly what my JD says and that’s it. 

Ricky Baez  05:46
And by the way, let me pause there, there’s nothing wrong with that. If all you want to do is that job and not move up that corporate ladder. If you don’t want to move up that corporate ladder, that’s fine, just be good at what you do. Right? 

Ricky Baez  05:59
But you can’t expect to get paid more for your skill. So you can’t expect to get promoted if you go in and just do the bare minimum, because I don’t know if any employer in the right mind would give anybody a promotion that does that. Right? 

Ricky Baez  06:15
So I think people are shooting themselves in the foot when they do things like that.

Pete Newsome  06:18
Correct. And I don’t think anyone listening to this show would dispute that, right? We talked about quiet quitting from the employee’s perspective on finding career zen. And so now let’s explore though, what the employers could be doing that would have their employees feel that way. 

Pete Newsome  06:37
Because the blame is not just on social media, the blame is not just on the trend, I mean, these things come up for a reason. And clearly, there’s some animosity out there that employees feel towards their employer. 

Pete Newsome  06:52
Now, what we would both say, and then did say on the other show was quit, if you aren’t happy in your situation, find another one, don’t live with a bad relationship. Because that’s what it is, at that point. It’s an unhealthy relationship. 

Pete Newsome  07:11
So don’t remain in it. And just like you wouldn’t in your personal life. So just like in your personal life, the future is not going to go very well. If in any relationship, you do the bare minimum, to you know, when doing your part, right? So you just kind of look forward in that respect. 

Pete Newsome  07:32
So leave if your situation is bad, but for employers, what do you think they’re doing? Or could be doing differently to prevent this, but what do you think they’re doing to cause this?

Ricky Baez  07:46
So I have seen some employers in the past 15 years or so that expect way more from their employees, I give a great example, once I knew a leader that got up really early, like 2:30 in the morning, right? 

Ricky Baez  08:00
And the first thing that leader did was check their email, and sent emails out from 3:30 to 4:30 in the morning, asking for information. Where this leader made a mistake is they expected a response relatively quickly. Like that was insane, right? 

Ricky Baez  08:20
Like, I send you an email, blah, blah, blah, blah, employees are like I just woke up at 6:30 in the morning, relax, right? So things like that. When, you know, during a meeting at 5 pm, the meeting goes to 6 or 8 pm. 

Ricky Baez  08:36
And the employee has a family they got all these things to do when they get to put a lot of other responsibilities from somebody else on the employee’s lap, and not giving them more money for it when organizations do that and abuse it. 

Ricky Baez  08:51
That I think is what created this, mantra that we’re seeing right now of quiet quitting. Now does every organization do that? Absolutely not. Does every organization in general do that? Maybe not everybody in the organization, but there may be two or three leaders in there that do it. 

Ricky Baez  09:08
And those two or three leaders that do that, those employees are fed up with it and they start doing it, they put it on TikTok then everybody sees it. And everybody thinks that’s what they should be doing. 

Ricky Baez  09:18
But employers who don’t have respect for people’s time, or what they can do, and don’t pay them for it, are the ones who created this trend right now.

Pete Newsome  09:31
So what do you do about it? Right, if you’re the employer, I mean, my initial thought is, if you have a tendency to do that, if you need people to work, long hours, if you need two people to be on standby too, you know, to stay late to go out of town to whatever it might be, to go above and beyond what would be considered normal schedule. Communicate that upfront. 

Pete Newsome  09:59
You know, it would be something to talk about in the interview process. So I can come up with lots of reasons why that may be necessary. You know, depending on the industry and the type of business, but you got to set the stage for it on the front end, and then no one can complain about it. 

Pete Newsome  10:16
So don’t tell someone you get to leave every day at five and never let them leave at five. That’s absurd. And you’re going to create, you know, a bad situation. So I mean, to me that seems like it should be easily avoidable.

Ricky Baez  10:31
It is. And have you heard the new one, Pete? Have you heard the opposite of quiet quitting? What some organizations are doing now? 

Pete Newsome  10:39
What’s that? 

Ricky Baez  10:40
Quiet firing, have you heard of this? 

Pete Newsome  10:42
Wait, so quit quitting, it was just born?

Ricky Baez  10:47
Quickly, dude, get a neck brace because this is happening at neck break speed. Now there’s a thing called Quiet firing.

Pete Newsome  10:55
Wait a second this up right now?

Ricky Baez  10:59
Society is making it up as it goes along.

Pete Newsome  11:02
What is quiet firing? Now here we go. This is education day.

Ricky Baez  11:05
So quiet firing is what some organizations do when they don’t want to just flat out the fire the employee, they don’t want to pay severance to let somebody go. They want to avoid all those expenses of a layoff or just letting somebody go and they just continue to pay the person for what they do.

Ricky Baez  11:27
But slowly make their life miserable at work to the point that they quit. So maybe they don’t invite them to this event. Or maybe they don’t give them that good account all these things to things to you know, just little tiny tweaks and paper cuts per se, to just have the employee be so upset that he or she says, you know, forget this, I’m done. And I’m going to quit. 

Ricky Baez  11:54
So that is the new trend and it’s called Quiet firing, which I gotta tell you, from an HR point of view, that’s dangerous. That’s dangerous. And because I’m gonna give you why that’s dangerous. And then we’re going to see what organizations need to do to prevent that from happening.

Ricky Baez  12:11
It is dangerous, because in the legal world, for all the attorneys listening, there’s a thing called constructive discharge. And constructive discharge means that if you as an employer, make your employee’s life miserable at work on purpose, that the employee had no reasonable option other than to quit, then that is considered a constructive discharge.

Ricky Baez  12:32
They can come back to you legally for that. That’s way out there. Right? But I think we can help organizations stop any of that from happening, even employees from quite quitting. And I got a couple of points if you’re ready.

Pete Newsome  12:46
Well, I’m trying to digest this, I’m looking, I just looked it up because I didn’t know that we were going to be introducing a new topic. I thought quiet quitting was enough. So quiet firing is the employer now wants to do the bare minimum. So what? 

Pete Newsome  13:07
Okay, before we get into the legal aspects, right, we should never have to get that far. If we’re making it a legal issue. And I’ve said that for a long time as a career salesperson. It’s common for new engagements or relationships to begin with a contract. 

Pete Newsome  13:26
And it’s been interesting over the years to see how some organizations dive into every word and detail of the contract, you know, going above and beyond to even be concerned with the grammar of a 10-page contract, right? 

Pete Newsome  13:43
And others are, barely looking over it, they sign based on the verbal terms that you’ve discussed, and sign it without really looking at it in any great detail at all. 

Pete Newsome  13:57
And I’ve always said and thought and I truly believe that in any business relationship, if you’re having to pull out the contract, you have bigger problems, to the problem or the contract to settle a dispute or disagreement, an issue, whatever it might be, you should probably consider whether it makes sense to continue that relationship. 

Pete Newsome  14:19
So I would make the same argument for the employee-employer relationship. If it’s so unhealthy, that as an employee, you’re trying to do the bare minimum, or the employer trying to treat, making a conscious effort to treat your employees poorly. What the hell are you doing? Why are we doing this at all? 

Ricky Baez  14:43
That’s not all companies, right? This is just, you know how it is Pete the 5% that do all the dirt makes the other 95% look bad. That’s anything right? So not all companies are doing that. But that’s the trend right now, but you’re right. If this is how you decide how you want to continue on with this relationship, just cut the relationship. 

Ricky Baez  15:04
If you have an employee now, okay, so I’m talking, I’m pointing the employer hat on, if you have an employee who’s not performing, right, coach them, teach that employee the tools they need to succeed. 

Ricky Baez  15:17
And if they still don’t then cut the losses, right, this is not going to work out, the win needs to be done and cut the losses. Now employee hat on, if you’re so upset at your job in your situation, then yeah, cut the losses as well. But to stay in a toxic relationship?

Ricky Baez  15:34
That may be too much. But if you stay in a relationship that you don’t like that it’s not giving you the purpose that you should feel in your week and hours, then to stay there and continue to do so is only going to make a situation worse.

Pete Newsome  15:45
So I’m actually looking it up while we’re talking because you sprung this on, right? That is one reason why an employer would want to do this because on the surface, I couldn’t think of any and the first one that I’m seeing is it’s to avoid having to pay unemployment. 

Pete Newsome  16:07
You have your unemployment benefits impacted by it. Okay, I mean, that now that’s really dirty and deceptive as an employer. But okay that’s a reason it’s a terrible one. Are there any others you can think of?

Ricky Baez  16:25
Same with severances, right? Because if you lay somebody off, you know not that there’s a law when it comes to paying a severance, but that is the rule of thumb and if you’ve done it before, if you got some if you got a policy that says you’re going to pay a week of pay for every year of service, and you’re in an organization that’s been around for over 50 years, and most of the people that you’re going to let go of our 20 plus year, veterans, you’re going to pay a lot, right? 

Ricky Baez  16:52
But that’s your policy. Right? Honor your contract, don’t put somebody in a position where they could quit just so you won’t have to pay. So paying service is one of them. And unemployment is another. But I can’t think of any other ones.

Pete Newsome  17:11
Awful individuals can.

Ricky Baez  17:14
I mean, yeah, that’s a good one.

Pete Newsome  17:18
No, there are a few articles. Apparently, this is coming out, as there’s a lot of articles in the last few days about this. But I think it’s not new that organizations, some organizations treat employees rather poorly, right, that is not news. 

Pete Newsome  17:40
There have always been bad employees. And there’s always been, bad employers. Now, I would tell you that. That’s one of the reasons why the freelance economy is growing so rapidly. And we could talk about that today. But I’d rather save that for next week, actually, because I think it goes hand in hand, I want to do a little more research on this quiet firing concept. 

Pete Newsome  18:05
Because as someone who is a big fan of the freelance market and the future of it, a big believer in it that, you know, I think you reap what you sow on both sides. So if you’re an employee who is quiet quitting and behaving that way. You’re not, it’s not going to go well for you, you’re going to be terminated probably right?

Pete Newsome  18:31
And you can point to the job description all day long and say I was doing the bare minimum, right? Just say that out loud. It sounds silly. If you’re an employer, who was treating employees badly, they’re going to quit, you’re going to have a difficult time retaining any staff and attracting new employees. 

Pete Newsome  18:52
So you know, terrible idea. Now, I say that about quiet quitting. As a Floridian as an owner of Florida based businesses who don’t, you know, it’s an at will state in terms of employment. So are there places where you can’t terminate? Are there states? 

Pete Newsome  19:13
Are there laws preventing employers from terminating someone who, consciously or outwardly says if they do, I mean, it wouldn’t be quiet at that point? So maybe this is a silly way to look at it, but who is doing the bare minimum? 

Pete Newsome  19:27
And, you know, as you said earlier, who ended a phone call at 5:01. Right, you saw on a TikTok video and refuse to stay on for a second longer are there laws preventing employers that you know of around the country from terminating employees who behave that way?

Ricky Baez  19:51
I’m trying to think so the question is, are there laws anywhere in the country preventing employers from terminating people for doing that? Yes. At face value, no, no, because again, the employer and fought at will employment, which is 49 states, an employer can terminate you for whatever reason the employer feels like, so long as it’s not something that’s protected by law. Right? 

Ricky Baez  20:18
So if a meeting ends at 5, and is supposed to end at 5, the meeting goes to 5:05, and one employee says I’m done because I’m done at 5, right? There’s no law preventing the employer from terminating that employee. They can do that. 

Ricky Baez  20:34
Even if the employee didn’t do that. There’s no law preventing it, right? Because you can do for whatever reason, you not continuing on with the meeting. It’s not something that’s protected by law. So technically, yes, the employer can terminate, there’s nothing to stop them.

Pete Newsome  20:47
Now overtime laws come into play there, though, right? If you are five minutes over, because this is, but see, back to my comment earlier, I would tell you, if we’re measuring things in minutes like that, that we should just part ways. 

Pete Newsome  21:07
It is a bad situation, I don’t ever want to be in a situation where I have to look over my shoulder or my employee’s shoulders to see if they’re checking Twitter during the day or looking at their Facebook accounts. I assume they do. And that’s okay. Right? Because we do spend a lot of time at work. And so it’s natural to do. 

Pete Newsome  21:28
Similarly, I don’t want employees who look at their watch and say it is 5:01. You said I, you know, could leave at five. And no one does, no employer wants that. And no employee wants to be in a situation where they feel compelled to do that. That’s what I think, the salient point here is that if you’re in a bad situation end it immediately. 

Pete Newsome  21:53
Both sides do so unapologetically. Right? I mean I just, I can’t comprehend why anyone would want to you, you can justify it all day long. But why would you want to be in a situation where you have to justify that kind of feeling and approach to your job or to the way you manage your workforce?

Ricky Baez  22:20
And, you know, to piggyback on that TikTok video that we’re talking about and, you know, thinking, what would compel somebody to be in a Zoom meeting that’s supposed to end at five, and then at 5 minutes, you got a few minutes left, because the leader says, “Hey, I just got a few more things, please hang in there.” And the employees like, “No, sorry, I’m done. I’m still supposed to be there in five”. I’m thinking, what would cause an employee to do that? And they hit me. 

Ricky Baez  22:45
They’re not engaged. They’re not in there for the right reasons. Right? Because if the employee was really invested in the bottom line of the organization, and they really understood, they really cared about the project that they’re working on, you’re right, nobody’s looking at their watch. 

Ricky Baez  23:02
Nobody’s like, it’s like a great movie that you see a great movie that’s supposed to last an hour and a half you like, wow, this movie is awesome. And you’re invested in it, and it’s over already. While you’re not looking at your watch then though, right? You’re invested in the idea. So I think in that specific situation, I don’t know if it was the employee alone, the employer alone, or a combination of both. 

Ricky Baez  23:22
But there is a sense of belonging, this sense of caring about the bottom line of whatever project you’re working on that’s missing, that’s causing an employee to react that way. Right? From an employer’s perspective. You got to respect people’s times, though, right? 

Ricky Baez  23:43
You know, if they’ve been up till 9:30 at night, and you’re still, you know, in a meeting, yeah, that’s going to annoy some people, if you send an email at two in the morning and expect people to respond within a couple of hours. 

Ricky Baez  23:54
Yeah, you can get some employers going to feel that way. But I think what’s missing is that mutual understanding of the relationship and the mutual caring for the bottom line.

Pete Newsome  24:06
Okay, just interject since this has come up twice. Everyone stop using an email that way. Don’t use email as a text communication back and forth. It’s not live. It’s not meant to be instant messaging, stop using the email that way, whoever does that is driving everyone crazy. 

Ricky Baez  24:26
Back then I used to get up early. Now It’s I don’t know what’s going on now. But back then I used to get up early. And that was what I used to do. I was sent an email, but my team understood just because you get an email at four in the morning doesn’t mean you have to respond at four in the morning, right? 

Ricky Baez  24:41
You can respond later, but that was my understanding with my team. Now I don’t wake up that early anymore. I’m getting old Pete. 

Pete Newsome  24:50
Well, unfortunately, that happens. All right. So let’s break this down before we end. Quiet quitting, doing the bare minimum as an employee, and feeling justified in doing so, you can do it, you can do it for a while, you can probably get away with it. But it’s a bad idea for a lot of obvious reasons.

Pete Newsome  25:16
Employers, who have employees doing that, need some self-reflection and say what is wrong with their environment. Where someone is compelled to do that? How did you hire wrong? How were your interview practices? Poor? Did you not explain the situation? And then the job correctly? 

Pete Newsome  25:37
And I don’t mean a job description. Right? I mean, people talking and communicating directly to people. Now if someone pulls out a job description and holds you that letter of the law, fine, you got to deal with it that way. 

Pete Newsome  25:50
But you set the tone in the interview, and bring in the people who want to be part of the mission, which is what you were describing earlier. And that should set you on the right course. Is there anything else to add to that? 

Ricky Baez  26:04
Well what I wanted to do, so I might contradict here a little bit. So just hear me out from the employer’s perspective, right? Look if you see somebody if you have to build relationships with your team, and Pete, you know, I’m big on relationships, and I tell everybody to build relationships with everybody you work with. 

Ricky Baez  26:23
But let the employer tell you how to build or how guide that relationship. So if you know who is on your team, how they work, and what talents they bring to the table, you should know who wants to move up that corporate ladder and who doesn’t. 

Pete Newsome  26:29

Ricky Baez  26:29
So for the people who don’t, you know, if you want to do just enough, I guess that’s okay. But make sure you do it great. And you’re bringing value to the organization. But don’t expect to be promoted. 

Ricky Baez  26:48
For those of you who want to be promoted, obviously, you’ve got to go above and beyond, but the leader has to guide that employee towards that. So I guess my message is for the employers, get to know your people get to know your employees, that way, you know who to guide, and you know who to keep.

Ricky Baez  27:05
Where they want to be that way, there wouldn’t be any misunderstandings later on. And be clear about what is success and what is below success. You’ve got to be clear with that and hold employees accountable. And the employees will make a decision whether this day or they go, that’s the fairest way to do it.

Pete Newsome  27:21
Fair enough. But communication is key, right? Set the stage, and there are lots of jobs out there where you can be on a shift, and when the clock hits, you know, the certain time you walk out, and if that’s important to you, as an employee, find one of those jobs. 

Pete Newsome  27:40
And then but like you said, if you do the bare minimum, you’re gonna get minimal results. So understand that too. So quiet firing is awful all around. We can’t justify that in any manner. And if you think you may be doing it, or your organization may be doing it, stop immediately. Go do something else with your life. Right? I mean, leave? 

Ricky Baez  28:05
Yeah, If they’re gonna be quiet about firing you, you have to be loud about leaving. That’s what you got to do. And just say, You know what, this is not for me. Thank you for the opportunity, but I’m gonna go somewhere else. I don’t know, why it is so hard to actually communicate things that way. 

Ricky Baez  28:05
Just be upfront and honest.

Pete Newsome  28:10
I think that is as much a reflection of how our society has evolved here in the US as much as anything else. And I don’t think we have time for that discussion today. But we have to, we have to go back a little bit and really get back to individuals, not institutions. But individuals. And we have so many laws, so many things that are preventing just people from working together in a healthy way. 

Pete Newsome  29:04
And that’s once again, why I want to talk about freelance because it kind of strips away all of these things that have been forced upon us, where we’re looking at the job descriptions to make decisions about whether we make another phone call or stay an extra five minutes and looking at contracts, and looking at laws and legal obligations put in place by folks who have no we don’t know personally and don’t know us and know our business and know our employees and know what we’re trying to accomplish. 

Pete Newsome  29:36
And so, you know, there’s been so much of that, that it’s really clouded you know, everything so that’s its own deal.

Ricky Baez  29:46
Yeah, right. It is. And like, everybody’s different. Everybody’s different. Everybody has their flaws. Just be open and honest. To the bottom and, and look, it’s when you first told me that you put one steak sauce on your steak. I didn’t hold that against you, you know, nobody’s perfect. 

Ricky Baez  30:03
I get it, I completely understand but just be open and communicate how you told me because you’re like, I love to put a one on and you got it man, I kind of pause for a second. I’m like, really? On a beautiful ribeye. What that’s one of the shirts right

Pete Newsome  30:16
Ricky, that’s, that is so far down my list of flaws that don’t even make the top 1000. 

Ricky Baez  30:23
I don’t know for a steak lover it kind of does.

Pete Newsome  30:28
it’s all relative. But but we will talk about freelance next week, because it’s, something that’s been on my mind a lot. I just wrote a blog about it that I published on zengig two weeks ago, and so much of what’s happening is unhealthy. And it doesn’t have to be. 

Pete Newsome  30:49
That’s what I believe in what to do my part to contribute to both from an employer standpoint, you want to like your employees, you want to get along with your employees, and you want them to be happy. I don’t know why an employer. And I don’t think other than, again, just some, you know, odd situations out there by anyone employer would behave and what differently, they just may not know how to accomplish it. 

Pete Newsome  31:13
And the same thing with employees, people want to be happy where they are. They want to show up caring about the mission, as you said, no one would want to feel such a way where they’re they’re having to follow this quiet quitting idea. So there are some things that are flawed out there. Let’s see if we can help correct them a little bit as we go forward.

Ricky Baez  31:34
Absolutely. I’m excited about the freelance conversation next week. Because you and I are in the same boat. I believe in that environment. I believe in the idea of freelancing and based on what’s happening and how relevant and how quickly not relevant how quickly these quiet quitting trends inquire quitting acquired firing trends are coming up. 

Ricky Baez  31:56
I think that’s going to push more people toward the freelancing world. And that’s what’s going to decide that is what’s going to separate people who are good to be a freelancer who’s like, oh, this is not what I thought it was. I’m gonna go back. So yeah, next week. I’m excited about that.

Pete Newsome  32:12
All right, we’ll do it. So thank you for listening today, everyone. Enjoy your weekend. Enjoy your evening. Drive safe!

Pete Newsome  32:19
Ricky. I will talk to you very soon. 

Ricky Baez  32:22
Thanks so much, my friend. Yes, sir.

Ricky Baez  32:23
Have a good one. Go, Giants.

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