In this episode of The Hiring Calling Podcast, Pete Newsome and Ricky Baez discuss the Great Resignation and what an employee should ask themselves before they leave a position for another.
When it comes to the Great Resignation, Pete talks about how professionals are focusing too much on salary and not enough on total compensation, such as benefits or perks that the company offers.
Ever wonder how Google manages to have a low turnover rate? Listen to Ricky talk about his personal experience with the company & how they engage their employees.
Between talking about what 4 Corner does with compensating employees, to job market changes, career evolution, and fringe benefits, there is a lot that goes into modifying a profession.
Be cautious with your decision making because it will impact your life.
Things to think about before leaving your job
This is the first thing that you should take into consideration when leaving one career and going to another. Some companies pay 100% of healthcare whereas others do not do anything at all. You should keep track of what is coming out of your paycheck when it comes to benefits because it all comes down to the real dollars. If one company barely covers you, and they are taking more out of your paycheck you are going to want to stick with the one that covers more and takes less.
Driving to work can take a huge chunk of your day, between heading to the office and back home. Remote work is a huge benefit because it saves you commute time that can go into work or personal life. Consider a company that believes that your time should be flexible and precious.
Think about what environment would work best for you. Do not switch to another career if the culture is toxic. You should be comfortable enough to speak to your hiring authority about leaving. If it is a toxic workplace where the employer is beating people down, you are going to be too afraid to resign or ask for a promotion.
This is an important thing to consider because you want to look at those reviews to get an idea of what the workplace culture is like. Investigate on your own and ask questions to figure out the worst and best parts of the company. Ask to shadow around and see how conversations take place.
Do not burn any bridges with past or present careers that you have had. There might be an opportunity to come back if you consider all these things too late. Build that bond with your employer so you can be straight forward and make your aspirations clear. Answer “Where do you see yourself?” honestly because the hiring authority wants to know what you are thinking. If you have this kind of relationship with your current employer, then talk to them about resigning, they may change your mind.
- Reasons Employees Are Leaving Their Jobs
- How to Resign from Your Job Without Burning Bridges
- How to Quit Your Job Professionally
- Finding a Job That is Right For You
Pete Newsome 00:00
You’re listening to The Hire Calling podcast. On today’s episode, we’re going to talk about the things that an employee should consider before leaving one job to take another.
Pete Newsome 00:09
Not sure where this conversation is going to go, but I’m pretty sure it’s going to be interesting. Let’s go!
Pete Newsome 00:20
Welcome everyone and thank you for listening to The Hire Calling Podcast. I’m Pete Newsome, and this is your source for all things hiring, staffing and recruiting. I’m joined again by Ricky Baez.
Pete Newsome 00:30
Ricky Happy Friday. How are you?
Ricky Baez 00:32
I’m doing great Pete! It’s Friday, April Fool’s, five days after the slap heard around the world.
Pete Newsome 00:44
Alright, which camp are you in, staged or not staged?
Ricky Baez 00:48
So my wife and I were watching, we hardly ever watched the Oscars, right? When it happened, at first I’m like wow, that’s really good acting. I mean Will is up for the Best Actor Award.
Ricky Baez 01:03
Chris Rock never got one and once I started hearing Will saying all those things. It was weird, my wife and I started covering our faces as if we were there, that’s how embarrassed we were.
Ricky Baez 01:15
So from my perspective, to be honest, Chris Rock is a comedian. He’s an edgy comedian and people need to have thick skin. Even if they don’t have thick skin, you’ve got to have the emotional intelligence to just wait until everything is over and then talk to the guy backstage.
Pete Newsome 01:35
Yeah the whole thing, the timeline right? I didn’t know anything about Will Smith and his relationship with his wife. I don’t pay attention to that kind of stuff. But after learning about it, the whole thing just gets more confusing.
Pete Newsome 01:49
You’re okay with it, let’s just say that most married men would not be okay with it. But a joke by like you said a comic who’s known for making insulting jokes to people at times in a situation where they roast people intentionally.
Pete Newsome 02:08
He laughed at first I mean that’s the part that, it wasn’t even just a small laugh. I mean it was head back, open mouth, and open laugh until he saw. So it’s just not, the whole thing is just so bizarre I mean, I am a fan of both of them.
Pete Newsome 02:24
Look I’m a Will Smith fan from his music, to his movies, and of course a huge Chris Rock fan. I mean how could you not be?
Ricky Baez 02:33
Come on, absolutely.
Pete Newsome 02:34
But you know, now I’m looking at it Will Smith like dude, I’m not listening to your music anymore. I’m skipping and I have an embarrassing amount of it in my Spotify list, probably. But no more, welcome to Miami’s.
Ricky Baez 02:49
Oh, man. I don’t believe anybody has ever said they had an embarrassing amount of music of anything. That’s a great way to put it. Like you got to his whole albums from the time he was a Nightmare On My Street. I think that’s what it was called?
Ricky Baez 03:03
It was him and DJ Jazzy Jeff.
Pete Newsome 03:07
This is so far off what we should be talking about.
Pete Newsome 03:07
Ricky Baez 03:07
That’s who we need to interview! Jazzy Jeff, how are you? Is he okay? I wonder if he’s going to come out and say he smacked me once a month back in the day. We don’t know if he’s going to say that.
Ricky Baez 03:20
I know. I’m sorry, dude I brought it up.
Pete Newsome 03:21
Jazzy Jeff, whoever, wherever he is, is probably a little bitter, right? Because he and Will Smith started off as a duo. It’s like the guy who was with Ryan Seacrest on Season One of American Idol.
Pete Newsome 03:36
I mean, talk about just a guy who has a good reason to be unhappy. Will Smith has every reason to be ecstatic, right? He hit the lottery with his career. I mean, he’s very talented.
Ricky Baez 03:49
Jazzy Jeff is in the back, “I’m here, don’t forget about me! The show’s over.”
Ricky Baez 03:53
But there’s no Jazzy Jeff in Fresh Prince, man. So I get it, and dude, I’m sorry I know we’re talking about things with actually, you said earlier things to consider before jumping ship. But man, I just had to mention that.
Pete Newsome 04:07
Yes, things to consider before going up on stage, because whatever is going to happen from this probably wasn’t. You know, if he had thought about it a little bit, probably wouldn’t have done it.
Pete Newsome 04:21
But yeah, so today’s episode is about things from a career perspective, what you should consider. So we’re still in the middle of this great resignation. The job changes are happening at a rapid pace right now.
Pete Newsome 04:36
You had the idea for this topic because of a conversation you had earlier in the week but a lot of people are changing jobs. We think that there are a number of things beyond just compensation that should be considered and maybe aren’t considered often enough. Would you agree with that?
Ricky Baez 04:57
I would agree with that, Pete. This great resignation seems to be the phrase for the past year. It’s happening, it gained speed. It’s like, you know, those cartoons when you have a snowball at the top of the mountain and then you just let it roll down. It keeps getting bigger, faster, bigger, and faster.
Ricky Baez 05:17
Some of the things that I’ve seen in the past few weeks, let alone these past few days, is I’m having conversations with people who are jumping ship with you know what, it’s more power to them.
Ricky Baez 05:28
But the reasons they’re giving me, I don’t think they’re really taking into account the entire picture on what somebody should take into account before they make such a big drastic change, right?
Ricky Baez 05:40
The first one here, it’s first an obvious one. When people take a look at total compensation, Pete, they tend to focus on one thing, and that’s the money, right?
Ricky Baez 05:50
Yeah, just the salary. How much am I getting into my pocket on a consistent basis?
Pete Newsome 05:50
Ricky Baez 05:56
What they don’t think about is the total part of that phrase, total compensation. So it’s not just about the money, you got to take a look at benefits, you got to take a look at a bunch of other things before you actually do jump ship. A lot of people are not doing that, though. Have you seen that?
Pete Newsome 06:11
Yeah, I mean, it’s that immediate gratification, thought process, or just a short-sighted thought, when you look at, like you said, what comes into your bank account every week. But let’s just pick apart some of these things, and start with benefits.
Pete Newsome 06:32
So healthcare coverage is typically the largest benefit that people pay attention to. How does your company treat that? Some companies pay 100% for employees, companies can give $1 amount to contribute, and some companies do nothing at all.
Pete Newsome 06:51
You have to factor that in, those are real dollars that are going to come out of your pocket, even though it doesn’t happen week to week. Or you know it can in terms of what your deduction is, but you need to consider that as I would say probably priority number one.
Ricky Baez 07:06
Absolutely! You know, some organizations have been doing something about that to make sure people have a clear picture of the total compensation they get to prevent this from happening.
Ricky Baez 07:18
For example, I used to work for a government organization about 15 years ago, and 15 years ago, what they did every year, they would send a letter to every employee that has a snapshot, a dashboard of how much the organization is paying into their benefits, that otherwise the employee just wouldn’t know.
Ricky Baez 07:38
That way they could take into consideration, if somebody else’s dangling $10,000 more over your head a year, take a look at are they paying 100% of your benefits? Are they doing all these other things for you? Are they giving you child care? Like Google?
Ricky Baez 07:55
Oh my god, Google does everything in their power to keep people from leaving their complex. I’m convinced dude, I’m really convinced. If you go to Google, they give you free breakfast, lunch, and dinner. They give you free auto mechanics, free doctors, and free everything.
Ricky Baez 08:11
I’m thinking that’s great, and then I’m thinking they just don’t want you to leave. They just want you to stay on campus, which I guess is a good thing. They take care of their employees. But anyway, that’s what someone’s going to do.
Pete Newsome 08:23
It’s hard to fault them for that, right? If everyone’s happy in the scenario, that’s an important thing.
Ricky Baez 08:32
Have you been to their campus?
Pete Newsome 08:34
Ricky Baez 08:35
Oh, my God it is gorgeous. Yeah, I went there about 10-15 years ago, and it was weird. I think you and I talked about this before I walked in, and I felt immediately out of place. Look, I’m like, I’m not a thin guy, I’m not a fit guy. Everybody there is a dang model.
Ricky Baez 08:55
Everybody there bikes to work, likes bad cow meat, and they exercise all the time. I’m sitting there like, I don’t belong here, right?
Ricky Baez 09:02
I’m sitting there contemplating life, you know, working on my project, and like, ooh, look, a steak. Then I want to have a steak, you know, to go ahead and continue on with self-loathing.
Ricky Baez 09:10
So it’s a beautiful campus, man. They know what they’re doing when it comes to keeping people engaged.
Pete Newsome 09:18
It seems like they’ve done a few things right. But let’s talk about that for a minute. Because that’s one of the things well, let’s put that actually aside for a moment because that’s, getting into the fringe benefits.
Pete Newsome 09:32
There’s been a lot of companies and you read a lot over the past couple of years of, you know, be more like Google. So let’s talk about that a little bit later.
Pete Newsome 09:41
But the dollar part upfront is in this total comp. That letter that you referenced my previous employer, which is going back now 17 years, had done something similar and I remember the first time I saw it, I was surprised by what that number looked like.
Pete Newsome 09:59
As I didn’t factor in things like cell phone allowance, $100 cell phone allowance, $1,200, a monthly cellphone allowance, $1,200 a year, there’s a real dollar. So if you’re making a move for $10,000, since you mentioned that number, that’s an easy one.
Pete Newsome 10:18
Nice round number to reference in this conversation, how quickly can that be eaten up in terms of a cellphone allowance, maybe an internet allowance now that a lot of people are working from home.
Pete Newsome 10:32
Is there a car allowance? What is that healthcare contribution? Is there a 401k match, just something like that can make up the difference, very quickly in what appears to be an increased compensation amount on the surface.
Pete Newsome 10:49
But you have to dig below the surface. That’s really the point of this, and I think what we believe is not everyone does, going into a job change.
Ricky Baez 11:00
We see that because people leave, right? They realize that it’s not what they thought it was, which is okay people make mistakes, and hopefully, didn’t burn any bridges to see if there’s an opportunity to come back.
Ricky Baez 11:12
But people can avoid that altogether, exactly how you said it, they dig deeper and take a look at what is the total compensation that they’re getting, in comparison to what they currently have.
Ricky Baez 11:23
It’s really easy to forget, those things that you normally don’t pay for, that other people do pay for. But because it’s out of sight it is definitely out of mind. It’s better for them to take a closer look at that package and make sure that you are comparing apples to apples.
Pete Newsome 11:40
Correct, so that’s a great way to wrap that up. We know it’s not all about the money.
Ricky Baez 11:46
Pete Newsome 11:47
If you’re making it about the money, you have to do that math.
Pete Newsome 11:51
If that’s a reason you’re leaving, make sure you’re not going to catch a nasty surprise, six months down the road.
Ricky Baez 11:51
There you go.
Pete Newsome 12:01
So beyond that, one of the things that we could talk about is fringe benefits, not that means that it’s wide open. But one of the things that I think really is being considered a lot right now or should be with the way the job market is changing is commute time.
Pete Newsome 12:19
If you assign a cost or price to your time if you just look at what you know, most people really value most in life as life goes on time is the most precious asset that exists. We know that. How much time is that? How much of a trade off are you willing to make when it comes to a commute?
Pete Newsome 12:43
The new factor in this consideration which is so prevalent now is, of course, not having any commute at all.
Ricky Baez 12:53
Pete Newsome 12:55
Boy, that’s a game changer, right? I mean, there’s kind of two camps growing I think with this right now.
Ricky Baez 13:02
Well, it is.
Pete Newsome 13:02
Go back to the office, or never go back to the office.
Ricky Baez 13:05
One of the things I really enjoy about this organization, Pete, is its vast flexibility.
Ricky Baez 13:10
From the get go, we tell employees coming into 4 Corner Resources, “Look, you can work from wherever you want.” Right? As long as you perform, which that’s everywhere, right? You can work from wherever you want, just let HR know because we got to make sure we take care of those taxes.
Pete Newsome 13:25
You can work from anywhere.
Ricky Baez 13:29
Anywhere you want, but that is that five years ago, and you and I have had deep conversations about this in the past, five years ago, that was considered a luxury, a huge luxury.
Ricky Baez 13:41
Now it’s almost as a required add on benefit, just like your I don’t know, HMO was 10 years ago. That’s how these things evolve.
Ricky Baez 13:52
I love how the market it’s changing, whether it’s because of policies or the environment, or a pandemic.
Ricky Baez 14:00
But organizations, folks, if you don’t want to get left back behind and if you really want to be flexible with your employees, right be flexible with what kind of work environment you give them. Not obviously, some jobs you can do from home like a doctor, you can do it from home, although give it time.
Pete Newsome 14:26
To your point, mostly at some point, someone has to cut the patient open right?
Ricky Baez 14:29
Well, that’s what I’m saying, give it time. I mean, have you seen the old Terminator movies where you’re able to do an operation? Was it Terminator or Total Recall? I don’t remember. They’re able to do an operation via Skype or something like that.
Ricky Baez 14:31
Pete Newsome 14:32
It’s not as scary if you accept what Elon Musk shared a couple of years ago. That the odds that we’re living in a simulation are very high, astronomically high, in which case he’s sort of accepted, it’s all virtual anyway. So don’t get too worked up about it.
Ricky Baez 15:04
No, because then people think they can get up and slap other people without consequences because they believe that.
Pete Newsome 15:11
As of late, those who think the simulation theory has some legs really are starting to think the simulation is breaking down a little bit, look around at some of the things that are happening.
Pete Newsome 15:23
We won’t say a lot of things out loud.
Ricky Baez 15:26
Time for an upgrade.
Pete Newsome 15:28
But yeah, you know, it starts to make a lot of sense when you think about why some of the things are happening right now in the world.
Ricky Baez 15:38
Like, I know it’s going to be a horrible segue, right? But like these fringe benefits today, Pete, very different to what they were 10 years ago. I’ve seen organizations offer and I don’t know how you feel about this, a nap room? Have you seen that? Have you seen nap rooms?
Pete Newsome 15:59
I have seen nap rooms, yeah.
Ricky Baez 16:02
Ricky Baez 16:05
Now, when I worked at Hue a long time ago, they had what’s called a chill room, right? You walk in and there’s a lounge area. They had a female chill room and they had a male chill room. You just go in, it’s got spa music, it’s got this whole spa vibe. There’s this big couch, you just lie down and you just go to sleep.
Ricky Baez 16:24
We quickly took that away, because people would consistently come back from break late. So we take that away because we’re like, 15 minutes, it’s not enough for a half hour for lunch, it’s not enough.
Ricky Baez 16:37
Somebody made the suggestion, just include that in the schedule of the day, one hour. The organization said no, and I don’t blame them. But that was back then.
Pete Newsome 16:47
Was the chill room for one person at a time? If so, who was monitoring to make sure it was only one person going.
Pete Newsome 16:55
So that’s a good question.
Pete Newsome 16:58
I just started watching the We Work show that came out.
Ricky Baez 17:04
I haven’t seen it.
Pete Newsome 17:06
Well, I already know the story so I don’t know if I’m spoiling anything. But let’s just say they referenced some crazy antics going on at their workspace. So when you’re talking about a chill room.
Ricky Baez 17:16
I get where you’re going. I get where you’re going with it. No, it was an area where you walked in, and they had different rooms, right? You could see if it’s red or green if it’s available or not available.
Ricky Baez 17:27
My time there, I haven’t seen or heard of any shenanigans happening. They just took it out.
Pete Newsome 17:35
Probably is a good idea.
Ricky Baez 17:38
But then that organization also was given free breakfast, lunch, and dinners, which was amazing, right?
Ricky Baez 17:43
This is something that is forward thinking. But again, those are some things just how you said Pete, just how you value your time when you’re commuting back and forth to work as four years ago, I was commuting one hour to work. And one hour back from work that’s 2 hours out of my day, I spent.
Pete Newsome 18:01
Here’s a question for you. So there’s a cost to the breakfast, lunch, and dinner that every employer has to incur. Of course, I could argue either side of this. They’re choosing, they’re doing it for the employees, right? Which on the surface seems very generous. But those are dollars that they could be handed to you directly.
Pete Newsome 18:23
So let’s say you’re someone who does intermittent fasting, there are a lot of people who do that. Let’s say you’re on a specific diet for whatever reason, or you’re vegan, whatever it might be. You could argue that those are your dollars being applied in a way you’d rather have in your pocket.
Pete Newsome 18:44
See those parks and go well, there’s a reason like I said, Google’s doing this to keep their employees there in theory, right? Maybe they are maybe they’re not. But yeah, those dollars could be going directly to you.
Ricky Baez 18:58
They could, but then wouldn’t that feed into the culture though. I think what the intent for that is it looks, it’s, we’re doing something different, right? It gives you the opportunity to have, you know, just commute time with your co worker, that otherwise, you wouldn’t have right?
Ricky Baez 19:19
Then people go on and cancel, go to Taco Bell, let’s go to Chipotle or not, let’s keep everybody here. Let’s eat together.
Ricky Baez 19:26
I use it as an air quote for the people who can see me as a family. We got to be careful with that, with that term. As soon as you say you’re part of the family, and now we got to let them go and fire them, and yeah, then maybe it’s not much of a family. Although you haven’t been to like Christmas parties.
Pete Newsome 19:44
That is kind of like a family.
Ricky Baez 19:46
I was going say yeah, my Christmas parties, man, they’re lit. Let me tell you, you will cancel your HBO max if you go to my parties, right because it’s entertaining,
Pete Newsome 19:55
So that’s part of this too, what may be a benefit to someone may be a turn off to someone else. So if we go back for a second to the idea of virtual offices, you’re working remotely versus being on site. There’s a lot of being on site is not for everyone. I’m sorry, working virtually is not for everyone.
Pete Newsome 20:25
So on the surface that seems appealing. Wow, I don’t have to go into the office, okay. But that means you lose a lot of what may have been, you know, socialism. Yeah, just being social. Like you said, communal and having people to eat with it’s very isolating to work from home, especially for people who live by themselves.
Ricky Baez 20:46
Pete Newsome 20:47
I think, personally, this may make me sound like, you know, an old guy saying this, but for young professionals, I don’t, I worry that they’re not going to evolve as much just by being surrounded by other people.
Pete Newsome 21:03
So though, they’ll go to zoom meetings that are scheduled, but you lose just hallway conversations, you lose the ability to just overhear something, and stop your employer and say, “Hey, what did you mean by that?” You know, I like the way you phrase that, or that’s something I hadn’t heard before.
Pete Newsome 21:20
Those things, you can’t measure on the surface. But I believe that they’re very real in someone’s career evolution. I don’t know how those just micro conversations or micro interactions, and whatever you want to call them, are going to be compensated for in someone’s evolution.
Ricky Baez 21:42
You said something really interesting. You said, “Putting a value on how that works.” You can’t do it.”
Ricky Baez 21:49
I’ve had a very interesting conversation with somebody about that very thing about three weeks ago over at school. One of the questions was, the topic was that you can’t put a value on that. So I asked them, but can you see the result? Like, “Oh, absolutely, they love it.”
Ricky Baez 22:06
But you can’t quantify it, I’m like, okay, then don’t ignore it, right? Just because you can’t put a value or quantify it, but you can really see the results, the results are tangible. Everybody enjoys those results. Just because you can’t put a number on it doesn’t mean you should ignore it.
Ricky Baez 22:22
Continue to do whatever it is the employees really enjoy. Then at some point, maybe, later on, you study and tried different ways, maybe later, you may be able to quantify it, or put a value dollar on it.
Ricky Baez 22:34
But let me tell you, there are some things out there that people do enjoy, you can value it, but you should still continue to do it. At the end of the day, the employer considers that part of the culture of the organization.
Pete Newsome 22:45
Yeah, and it’s something that everyone has to acknowledge. Really this is what this whole episode is about, a holistic consideration of all of the factors. So of course, compensation is a big one, the environment you’re going to work in from anywhere, which I personally find extremely appealing.
Pete Newsome 23:08
I absolutely love it, I say every time it comes up, what the gig economy does for the workforce, what the virtual options mean, for people if I didn’t have two kids at home, still I would not be in Orlando right now where we’re headquartered. Where I worked in the office every day for 15 years. I don’t need to be anymore.
Pete Newsome 23:31
The rules have changed and the way we’re working every day has changed, I would take advantage of that fully.
Pete Newsome 23:36
However, for my kids, as they start to graduate from school and go out into the world. I worry about that for them a little bit. I know so much of what has helped my career and professional evolution wouldn’t have happened had I been isolated all day, every day in my job.
Pete Newsome 23:59
So you know, those are things that really and then commute distance and time and all of those factors. And you can’t quantify them, per se, there’s no formula, there’s no way to measure that. But you have to know how it impacts you personally and how it makes you feel.
Pete Newsome 24:17
I mean, this is really where going with your gut, listening to your gut. and exploring those things all come into play when making such an important decision, such as a career move.
Ricky Baez 24:28
Well, that feeds right into the culture, because that’s another thing people need to consider the culture of the organization. Can you get paid a lot of money working somewhere?
Ricky Baez 24:37
Ricky Baez 24:38
Can you get great benefits? Of course, fringe benefits are great. What’s that over there a yoga class in between meetings?
Ricky Baez 24:44
Awesome. But if the culture is toxic, that excitement is going to last four to six months, that’s about it, just four or six months.
Pete Newsome 24:55
We’re going to talk about that.
Ricky Baez 24:56
Yeah, let’s do that.
Pete Newsome 24:58
Now, this is also an old guy coming up.
Ricky Baez 24:59
Pete Newsome 25:00
That is, as far as I can tell, become a go-to word for any time an employee isn’t thriving at their workplace.
Ricky Baez 25:13
Pete Newsome 25:13
Yeah, toxic. It’s a toxic work environment.
Ricky Baez 25:19
I’m sorry, okay. I know exactly what you mean.
Pete Newsome 25:23
You know where I’m going with this.
Ricky Baez 25:24
Pete Newsome 25:25
Look, we’ve been accused of 4 Corner Resources on Glassdoor my favorite website, of it being a toxic work environment by a couple of people who I hope are no longer with us. While we don’t like to see that, and certainly don’t believe that that is what we have.
Pete Newsome 25:46
I also acknowledge it that is, if you look at every negative review on Google, or I’m sorry, on Glassdoor, and for every company, that is the default word. Now, it’s a toxic work environment. It’s such a low effort word, and it’s just supposed to be really impactful, like, “Oh, you’re toxic work environment,” that’s the last thing I’d want to be accused of.
Pete Newsome 26:11
But I see it and go, I don’t even know what that means. If it means we expect you to perform at a high level, it’s not okay if you don’t. Well, then maybe we are toxic admission, we’re going to apply to it. But yeah, we know, you know, but I think of that as being a very serious thing, really nasty berating, swearing or throwing things, work environment.
Pete Newsome 26:44
I think it’s just been used now, become almost a word. There are a few of them these days that are used so frequently, they just lose whatever meaning they were supposed to have intentionally. So that’s my I don’t know really what my point is with that, but you said it, it always catches my attention.
Pete Newsome 27:02
I’m like, oh, here we go, again, with the toxic work environment. So what does that mean to you? So I actually read a definition of it online a couple of days ago. I thought it was sort of interesting.
Ricky Baez 27:12
Well, toxic for me means something completely different to the rest of the population. Here’s what I mean by that, I was in the Marine Corps. Boot camp was absolutely toxic from 4:30 in the morning, until midnight, every day for 13 weeks, it was a toxic environment, right? Until you learn how to embrace it and you realize what they want to do.
Ricky Baez 27:36
Now, going back to your example, and you preface that by saying here’s the old man talking, dude, no, it’s not because I agree with you. I agree with you 100%, right? That if, you have one employee or two employees who are not performing, and then they fall below standards, and they get held accountable, and they say this is a toxic work environment.
Ricky Baez 27:59
Let’s have a conversation about recalibrating what that word means.
Ricky Baez 28:03
That’s not a toxic work environment, that’s you being held accountable. Let’s look up that word. Accountability, because that’s the one we need. That’s the one we need to look at. So I’m with you. 100%. But here’s how I take Google reviews or, anything else, if I see like 2% or negative, I’m good.
Ricky Baez 28:23
Just like when I go to Amazon, and I try to find a resource, something I want to buy. I don’t go by name brands, I go by the average customer review. If that’s 5,000 people say this is great. Two people say no, I’m going to ignore those two people because they have no idea what you’re talking about. Same thing here at work.
Ricky Baez 28:45
Let me give you an example of a toxic work environment. Are you ready?
Pete Newsome 28:49
Ricky Baez 28:49
As soon as you go to work, your managers yelling at you, how dare you? You’re two seconds late. You didn’t do this yesterday. It’s just a yell fest, right? And then two minutes, like, you go into the meeting, everything’s your fault. You go into another meeting, everything’s your fault, right?
Ricky Baez 29:06
This is when there’s somebody involved in a position of authority. They’re always beating people down.
Ricky Baez 29:13
That to me is a toxic work environment that is radically different than a leader helping you moving the needle from A to B by saying, dude, what’s going on? Is everything okay at home? You did awesome these previous three months, but now you’re not doing well what’s going on?
Ricky Baez 29:28
It’s still declining, just because they lost all kinds of motivation. They end up leaving or getting written up. That’s not a toxic environment, man. I’m sorry, I’m with you 100%.
Pete Newsome 29:40
Yeah, and like I said it’s become the trendy word to use. I look at it the other way, when I see that, and specifically, I’m talking about Glassdoor reviews, right, because they’re anonymous in nature or Google reviews.
Pete Newsome 29:57
People can make fake accounts, but Google holds people, If you’re going to put this out there and review an organization, you got to put your name behind it. You know, make sure that you’re accountable you know, for it right, you got to back it up.
Pete Newsome 30:12
Similarly, I think Yelp does the same thing. They don’t just let people go on and give a bad review about a business or restaurant, whatever it might be, you have to earn some credibility with Yelp, as I understand it before, they’ll have that review, go up. Glassdoor lets it be anonymous.
Pete Newsome 30:30
So my request to them is always “Hey, give the employer the opportunity.” If you say, these are all these terrible things about the employee with no ability to back it up or no requirement to back it up, which is what Glassdoor how they operate. Well, change that let the employer then comment back about the employee.
Pete Newsome 30:50
Right? That should be fair.
Ricky Baez 30:51
I’m with you.
Pete Newsome 30:53
So yes, look, I am proud of our reviews, you know, that we have overall, we have very good ratings on those sites. But I also have to immediately dismiss the anonymity of those when I see it, and most people who have a good experience, and I’d say good or a medium experience, don’t go on and do reviews.
Pete Newsome 31:23
As a result, It’s usually the extremes, right? The great ones, or the awful.
Ricky Baez 31:28
Other awful ones, yeah.
Pete Newsome 31:31
When I see that some employers have a lot of negative views, I’m like, really? How do we know? Who’s making them?
Ricky Baez 31:40
Well you know that, but Pete, every employee goes through that man, you know that every single employer has some employees that are just upset. And you know what, if I saw a review or a culture where everybody is 100%, happy, something’s wrong. Something’s wrong, right?
Ricky Baez 32:01
Part of having a great culture is to be able to give employees the opportunity. Look, if you see something wrong, or something just rubs you the wrong way. You should feel free and safe to speak up. And let’s have a conversation, a tactful conversation, a respectful conversation, right?
Ricky Baez 32:21
I’ve seen situations where people want to speak up and they start cursing people out. I’m like, that’s not what I meant. I mean, have a respectful human to human conversation. But if you have a culture of trust like that, you can’t put a value on that, Pete. You cannot put a value on that at all.
Pete Newsome 32:39
No doubt. Well, and I think this is just to bring us back to the topic of the day, you know, that is something to consider when you’re thinking of jumping ship, right? Look at those reviews, if you want to but look at them with skepticism when they’re anonymous, that would be my advice for those sites.
Ricky Baez 33:02
What do you think about this? You know how whenever an employer makes an offer to somebody? And they say, “You know what, give us three references, so we can check you out.” You know, let’s check your friends.
Ricky Baez 33:13
What if a candidate did that to the employer? And said, “You know what, give me three references from your employees that I can talk to? Can I shadow them for 20 minutes?” What do you think about that?
Pete Newsome 33:24
Well, I think it’s a great thing. When we were all in the office, it was a regular part of our interview process.
Pete Newsome 33:30
We would ask people to come in and shadow. So you joined us, of course, after we were already virtual, but that was a regular part of our interview process because we wanted a potential employee to see what a day to day was like as much as we possibly could just to use our staffing business as the example.
Pete Newsome 33:52
Being on the phone all day, every day, speaking with people about job opportunities, and often having to come a number of hours and sometimes a number of days without finding someone who’s a good fit for a role. That is not for everyone, We know that.
Pete Newsome 34:10
The staffing industry as a whole has a greater than 80% turnover rate in year one when people join, at least that’s the statistic I have in my head that I saw last, please no one say I made that up. I’m not making it up. I don’t know that it’s 100% accurate either. But it’s somewhere in that area.
Pete Newsome 34:31
So we know that there’s a high failure rate. So we want to mitigate that risk as much as we can. My perspective on that is let’s get all the bad out on the surface now and I probably said that when I met you.
Ricky Baez 34:45
Pete Newsome 34:46
So ask anything you want. It’s not all roses in any company, we know that. But I want you to see what’s the worst, if you will, which in our case, I don’t think is there’s a worse, it’s not bad. But then I want you to have all that on this on the table and then make your decision accordingly.
Pete Newsome 35:09
Same thing with the employee. I want to know what the potential downside is with you because no employee is perfect, right? There is a worst of every employee, there’s a worst of me, that’s for sure. I want that to be known. And then sort of like a marriage, if I know you at your worst, and then I’m okay. If we still decide to proceed.
Pete Newsome 35:30
So I think that is part of, your point. Yeah, you do want to have those conversations wherever possible with current employees. I’m a huge proponent of that to go okay, now, give me the real scoop. Yeah, give me the scoop. They weren’t going to say, you know, on the surface, your accuracy on the website. Not every organization is perfect.
Pete Newsome 35:52
Admittedly, with ours, I think we’ve had largely a lot of turnover, just because people just didn’t really when we have a turnover of someone within a year, we try to avoid it in our interview process. Because once you’re there, it’s like, yeah, okay, boy, they really meant what they said.
Pete Newsome 36:08
That’s been kind of a common thing over the years, when people choose to leave the staffing industry, like, wow, I didn’t really realize what this was going to be like. It’s hard to, do that just in an interview. That’s for sure.
Ricky Baez 36:22
But that right there, it’s just those little tiny intricacies is what makeup that culture, right, when people make a mistake, cool. Let’s have a conversation about that mistake. That’s not what you thought it was. That’s fine. Exactly how you said like a marriage if this is at your worst, and we still continue on, perfect.
Ricky Baez 36:38
We just finished doing difficult conversations training for all the employees at 4 Corner Resources. And that’s what we talked about. We talked about the idea of becoming comfortable with being uncomfortable with difficult conversations. The more and more we do that, the more real information gets transferred back and forth.
Ricky Baez 36:57
Instead of trying to prove your point to the other person, switch that mindset to try to understand the other person’s point of view or vice versa. That right there, once you’re able to do that, and focus on the content, not the person, you take a step back, top notch, airtight culture.
Pete Newsome 37:15
You said it, I think this is very important, important to me, it’s important for 4 Corner, it should be important to everyone, I don’t know, make it real.
Pete Newsome 37:24
The reality is, you’re going to leave every job except for one, you will only have one relationship, I say this in terms of like marriage and relationships. You’re only going to have one relationship that doesn’t end, in your life, right? That is an indisputable truth
Ricky Baez 37:24
Pete Newsome 37:42
So unless you start a job and retire from that job, or start a business and retire from that business, things are going to end along the way. And I don’t know, I won’t make up another statistic and say how often people change jobs throughout their careers.
Ricky Baez 37:42
Pete Newsome 37:59
But being in staffing, I can tell you it is probably from the time someone starts a professional career, I would say the average has to be 10 times, so 10 changes. Whether the employee chooses to do that, whether the employer invited the employee to leave.
Ricky Baez 38:17
I like how you put that. The employer invited the employee to leave. We Invite you to get out of here.
Pete Newsome 38:26
So you know, odds are it’s going to end by your choosing or otherwise, right? Could be layoffs, could be so many different things, and that’s okay.
Ricky Baez 38:37
Pete Newsome 38:37
Right, that’s the point like that doesn’t mean go on and, you know, go onto a review site and make the appointment. It just means it didn’t work out. I suspect that most of those negative reviews when you see them, the employer’s perspective would be significantly different from the person leaving that review.
Ricky Baez 38:55
I don’t think when an employer sees a negative review, and they’re like, “Yeah, I agree with that.” “Yeah, we suck. That’s us.”
Pete Newsome 39:09
What we know further right is and this is the real part that you don’t want to go back to that because no one intends to be bad, right? There’s no employee who goes into a role goes “I’m going to not work out I’m going to be fired probably for underperforming.”
Pete Newsome 39:25
No employer hires anyone with the expectation or desire that the employee will choose to quit because it wasn’t that job that wasn’t what they wanted in the organization. It wasn’t what they wanted to stay with. You’ll go on and harbor bad feelings about that employer.
Pete Newsome 39:45
No one wants that to happen. What’s lacking often is communication. When I see when an employee has left 4 Corner over the years, and we didn’t expect him to leave, sometimes you just know it’s just not going to be a good fit, right?
Pete Newsome 40:02
But when that happens unexpectedly, just like if an employee is terminated unexpectedly, that is where it’s not real, because that means that communication wasn’t taking place that you referenced.
Pete Newsome 40:16
There shouldn’t be a penalty for sharing that things aren’t going well, that things are, “Hey, you’re not performing as we expected, here’s what needs to change.” Those conversations should absolutely take place, no one should ever be surprised by being terminated by an employee.
Ricky Baez 40:34
Pete Newsome 40:35
That is a bad thing to happen, I hope throughout our history, we have had to terminate employees on occasion, I hope that they’ve never been surprised by it. If so, that is something we did not want to happen, I promise. Similarly, I don’t want any of our employees at 4 Corner to ever feel like they couldn’t come to tell us that they were dissatisfied.
Pete Newsome 40:36
They couldn’t come and have a conversation that, “Hey, this is not what I anticipated. This is not working out.” Because we would want to help them find a job that did, we don’t want a dissatisfied employee working for us. I can’t, I think that’s a universal thing, no employer would. So I’m always disappointed when that happens over the years where someone left, why? Well, they weren’t satisfied with XYZ.
Pete Newsome 41:26
Man, I wish I would have known. Sometimes we could we can impact that. By the way, there have been some of those conversations over the years, it’s worked phenomenally well, where employees have felt that comfort. I wish everyone who joins us does feel that level of comfort. It’s important to me personally, it’s important to the business as a whole.
Pete Newsome 41:47
But to come and say, “Hey, this isn’t working out. I think I may need to leave.”
Pete Newsome 41:52
But I totally respect that if someone wants to go do something, I don’t take it personally.
Ricky Baez 41:52
Pete Newsome 41:52
Great, well, we’ll help you if we can’t solve it, you know, if someone comes says, “Hey, look, I really want to, you know, want to help save the environment,” for example, like that’s something that I think about all the time. That’s not something we do as a staffing company. We can’t offer that alternative and do it.
Pete Newsome 42:12
I know that staffing is not for everyone, I know that our particular brand of staffing and the way we go about it and the expectations that we have, or maybe our comp plan or the fact that we’re now mostly virtual, I could list 100 reasons that I think we’re a wonderful place to work.
Pete Newsome 42:33
I could list 100 reasons why people would not want to work for me, depending on their perspective. But what should always be out there is the ability to have those conversations openly.
Ricky Baez 42:45
Pete Newsome 42:46
That was a really long rant.
Ricky Baez 42:50
It makes sense, though, you drove the point home, Pete, at the end of the day, you got to be able to have those open and honest conversations about the work environment.
Ricky Baez 43:01
The folks who are thinking about leaving and going somewhere else, again, we’re not saying like, you know what, you got to stay there even if you hate it. What we’re saying is, things to consider. These are some things, because exactly as you said, Pete, it’s not for everybody.
Pete Newsome 43:15
So the point here is to consider speaking with your employer before leaving and letting them know you’re thinking about it. And yes, we acknowledge that, in some scenarios as unfortunate, as it says means that they’re going to consider terminating you right away.
Pete Newsome 43:30
So for any employer who’s listening, don’t do that. That’s a terrible way to operate.
Ricky Baez 43:38
Now, wait a minute. Unless you know, this person is going to create a ruckus. I’ve seen people leaving the office and man, they just start turning tables over. I personally have seen that, right? When they put in a two week notice, the next thing you know, they want to let everybody know exactly how he feels about them, walk out of my office, and starts turning tables over.
Ricky Baez 44:01
I’m like, “Hey, dude, come back. I’m accepting your resignation immediately at this point.” Good, please grab your stuff and go that was the truth. That’s the true story that happened to be six years ago.
Ricky Baez 44:13
So unless that happens, but you’re right, if that culture of trust is there, for the people who are looking to leave, you got to make sure that the culture you go into it’s something that resonates with something you’re used to and sometimes that’s not really evident in an interview process. So ask for references, you never know.
Ricky Baez 44:33
Or go on Google Review.
Pete Newsome 44:34
Yeah, ask to shadow.
Pete Newsome 44:36
You know, however, that works virtually, ask to speak with employees privately.
Ricky Baez 44:41
Pete Newsome 44:43
When that happens, a lot of interesting things come out on both sides. As you know, as an HR guy, you’ll at times hear certain things that a manager won’t. At times people won’t tell you things because they think you’re going to want to be in trouble from an HR perspective, right?
Pete Newsome 45:02
But where possible, seek those opportunities and just know that, as I mentioned a few minutes ago, everyone enters that new employee-employer relationship hoping that it’s going to work out well. So employers, if your employee isn’t a perfect fit, accept that that’s going to happen on occasion, treat them, and kindly treat them with empathy and respect.
Pete Newsome 45:29
And employees, If your employer turns out not to be your dream job. Accept that you have some comparability too.
Ricky Baez 45:37
There you go.
Pete Newsome 45:40
Just consider that maybe, partly, it was on you. Then proceed accordingly.
Pete Newsome 45:48
So back to the Google culture that we mentioned, and nap rooms and ball pits, and for years, everyone’s saying, “Be like Google,” and that to me meant, I mean, I would say, I would love to be like Google, and to be one of the most successful companies in the history of the planet.
Pete Newsome 46:06
But I think what it typically means is, give your employees a lot of fun opportunities to make work fun. That’s how I always interpret that. Do you agree?
Ricky Baez 46:16
So thank you for saying that, Pete. I’ve heard that from a lot of clients that I’ve had in the past. They always have said, “I want to be like Google, I want to be like, like Netflix,” and I stopped them, like, In what respect? Successful? I agree, but in how to treat their employees.
Ricky Baez 46:32
No, here’s why. Now you’re emulating what Google is. You’re not Google, you’re not Netflix, right? You’ve got to be authentic, employees, human beings, in particular, respond to authenticity.
Ricky Baez 46:46
If you’re real in what you’re trying to do if you are real and your empathy, to connect with them and making sure they have a great work environment, look, they spend most of their time, their waking hours with us at work.
Ricky Baez 47:03
When they go home it’s either school, or family, and then they demand a lot of their time. Then what suffers, is sleep, they get four hours of sleep, and they got to come back and do it all over again.
Ricky Baez 47:12
So as employers, we have a responsibility when they’re spending their waking hours with us, and this is any employer, you’ve got to make sure that you put a culture in place where they feel like they belong. That really shows what the organization is trying to do not just what Google is doing.
Pete Newsome 47:30
Well, and if you combine these thoughts, you mentioned Google doing a lot of things to keep their employees there and my understanding of most of the Silicon Valley companies, the ones that have become so big, I mean, they’re maniacal in their work ethic.
Ricky Baez 47:45
Pete Newsome 47:46
They work ridiculous hours. Okay, well, if you want to, if you want all that other stuff, like if we have employees working 18 hour days consistently. That’s where some ball pits.
Ricky Baez 48:03
If I go to the office next week, and I see a ball pit, I’m going to freak out. I’m going to jump right in there.
Pete Newsome 48:09
If everyone’s working 18 hours a day there’s going to be multiple balls pits, nap rooms, and clowns.
Ricky Baez 48:15
You’re going to have clowns juggling. I’m sorry, I’m picturing it right now.
Pete Newsome 48:20
I’ll commit to that at this moment.
Ricky Baez 48:21
Oh, god, that’s hilarious. Have you guys heard that? You guys heard it, we’re going to get clowns and a ball pit.
Pete Newsome 48:30
No, none of the 4 Corner employees are listening to this.
Ricky Baez 48:37
You’re killing me, Pete.
Pete Newsome 48:38
They don’t have it out there. They may be having more fun in the office, but they don’t have a balance.
Pete Newsome 48:38
But that’s part of the deal, right? Like, do you want to work your crazy hours and make your life evolve around that? Or, have a lot of fringe benefits and fun stuff that goes with it? Or do you want a normal work life balance that comes up a lot, now with consideration of you know, I have it or I don’t?
Pete Newsome 49:06
I don’t think they do, man. I don’t think they do.
Ricky Baez 49:11
I mean, look, it’s you know, California is crazy expensive so you might as well stay on campus. Right? You’re right. I don’t know, if the balance they don’t want, I think is redefined.
Ricky Baez 49:25
That is because there’s a big difference between working 18 hours a day and doing something you just hate to do. Working 18 hours a day is something you’re passionate about. Because if you’re passionate about it, it’s not going to feel like 18 hours, it’s going to feel like a couple of hours. Right?
Ricky Baez 49:39
So I guess it depends on the passion of work, but that’s up to the leader. That’s up to the leader to set that tone on the passion that’s there. But, again, back to what you said, this is not for everybody and that’s perfectly okay. We have to be okay with having those conversations again. It all goes back to that cultural fit.
Ricky Baez 49:58
But there’s another one Pete. Another one that people need to consider before going to another organization. And that’s career pathing opportunities.
Ricky Baez 50:08
If you had a great opportunity here, and Company A where you currently are right now, you’re just not there yet, right? You go somewhere else thinking, “Alright, I’m going to get that promotion somewhere else.” But you figure out once you get that you hit the ceiling there, these are things you have to consider.
Ricky Baez 50:25
And again, it goes back to the culture, because when I coach leaders, I tell them, as soon as you start with a brand new team, first 30 days, don’t worry about policy, don’t worry about this or that. Get to know your employees, and build those relationships. If you get to know the employees, and you build those relationships, you find out what their career aspirations are.
Ricky Baez 50:48
Some people want to move up every two years or so other people want to stay exactly where they are. And they’re both right. They’re both 100% right. You, as a leader have to know your employees well enough to know how to guide them.
Pete Newsome 51:03
Yeah, absolutely. That is a huge consideration if you’re going to take this fictitious jump for $10,000 that we started talking about earlier. What’s next? Right? What is that? That whole picture is really the point of this podcast.
Pete Newsome 51:22
Yeah, that is such a big consideration. It probably doesn’t make it high enough on the list a lot of times.
Pete Newsome 51:33
We’ve seen so many job changes recently. I often wonder if there’s been what I consider to be almost unnatural hiring going on in certain areas, because of the demand for employees right now. It’s possible, and I do expect the talent shortage is going to continue for the foreseeable future. But market conditions are less than stable right now.
Ricky Baez 51:33
Ricky Baez 52:02
That’s a good way to put it.
Pete Newsome 52:04
Pete Newsome 52:05
I mean, that’s probably the mildest way to put it. When you look at the economic risks, that we’re facing right now, and there’s a lot going on in the world that that could potentially shift the dynamic very, very quickly, where you consider whether your job is going to survive, what, you know, maybe cuts.
Pete Newsome 52:36
If there were going to be cuts or was this job created, based on the current scenario that we’re facing? Right? Which is high employee demand. Or is this job going to be there even without that, maybe that’s the best way to put it?
Pete Newsome 52:53
Then, once again, what if you want to factor this into the equation, great. I mean, everyone has a different perspective on how stable things are right now. But if you think that there is some risk with the economy and that we may face a recession or worse in the near future, ask yourself, would this job, be if the company downsized by 25%, again this is just off the top.
Pete Newsome 53:20
Is that job that you’re moving into going to make the cut? If as a new person, low person, you know, in the rankings. Does the company consider that as a factor? Many do.
Ricky Baez 53:34
Pete Newsome 53:35
Depending on the situation, longevity, tenure, these things, matter. Loyalty is a real thing. Right? And so maybe, that should be a bigger consideration right now in current times, than it would have a couple of years ago.
Ricky Baez 53:52
It should, and you just reminded me of a conversation that I had with a student last week. This particular student was interviewed, and he’s got a really good job, but a nice one considering going somewhere else.
Ricky Baez 54:07
But one of the questions that they asked him is where do you see yourself in four years? I mean, three years, which is a common question, but for some reason, this particular student had never been asked that before. And he said, “I want to stay exactly where I’m at, because I want to learn this role, blah, blah, you know, the whole let me learn this role.”
Ricky Baez 54:28
But then when he asked me about it about that question, I told him that’s a common question, though. And he’s like, “Look, I want to be promoted every two years. But I was afraid to say that because I was afraid they might think that I wasn’t going to be in that position very long.”
Ricky Baez 54:44
And I’m like, I mean, I guess I understand your thought process but let them know. Let them know maybe they have a process where they don’t want people in the position for too long. Maybe they have a great career pathing process. What I’m saying is, in an interview, it will be in your best interest to answer that question, honestly. Right?
Ricky Baez 55:05
And I told him next time that question comes up, and if you really want to, move up in that organization just say, “I see after I learned and mastered and perform and knock everything out of the park for you in this position in a couple of years, I would like to move up in a more senior role.”
Ricky Baez 55:22
To me, that’s a great answer to that. What do you think?
Pete Newsome 55:26
Those questions are, man, they’re tough. I don’t necessarily like that and here’s why. But you said the right thing, answer it honestly. But that’s only effective and that is the right thing to do. I’ll tell you my own personal story with this question, or something similar.
Pete Newsome 55:49
We want to make sure that the interviewer is asking it from the right perspective, too, and not to set up a candidate. So one company, the right answer may be, we want someone who’s not going to look into make a change for three years, you’ve got to be happy. And we’ve had clients rule people out because their aspirations to advance rapidly were too high. Right? And at times, we see the polar opposite.
Pete Newsome 56:20
We need people who are ambitious, and if they don’t seem ambitious enough, well, okay. So if sincere, buy inviting employer, then yes, that matches up really well. We want to hear your honest answer. If you’re not going to be satisfied in the same role for three years, you may not be a good fit, or if you’re someone who is willing to sit for three years, and you’re not ambitious enough for us.
Pete Newsome 56:48
So I think that is when done right can be okay. But I think a lot of times, it’s just thrown out there. I just want to hear how you answer and it may not serve many purposes.
Ricky Baez 57:03
Well, another thing I told him is, look, if he’s still in the runnings, I asked him, find out who your direct if you’re offered the job and you accept it, find out who your direct manager is going to be.
Ricky Baez 57:16
Once you find out who that person is going to be asked to, you know, spend an hour with them with him or her, you know, figure out what kind of a manager that person is. The only person I mean, I don’t care how great you are, right, it’s in again, this is Ricky’s opinion, not Pete’s, or reflection of a 4 Corner Resources or The Hire Calling podcast.
Ricky Baez 57:37
My opinion is, that if I don’t care how many skillsets you have if your boss who’s responsible for your paycheck is not your biggest cheerleader, you’re not going to get ahead.
Pete Newsome 57:55
I think other than roles that are purely objective, where, you know, you may be competing against other people on achievement in numbers, sales, your number of calls, whatever those KPIs might be, other than those cases where there really is no subjectivity.
Pete Newsome 58:14
I think that those are few and far between. I couldn’t agree more. And I’d be interested to hear from someone who disagrees.
Ricky Baez 58:20
Yeah, me too.
Pete Newsome 58:23
So let’s say it is the opinion of The Hire Calling podcast.
Ricky Baez 58:26
Pete Newsome 58:27
We can go ahead and say that how your manager views your performance when you’re an employee is, so far, so high as the number one importance of how well you’re doing or how well the organization will view that.
Pete Newsome 58:50
The second thing on the list isn’t even worth talking about. Right? Because it is what matters most. That is something that you should absolutely have great clarity around as an employee at any given time.
Pete Newsome 59:08
Ricky, if you’re my manager, how do you think I’m doing? And then what you know, what should I do more of what should I do less of? Period the end, right?
Ricky Baez 59:17
And have that conversation.
Pete Newsome 59:19
You better know that all the time as an employee.
Ricky Baez 59:22
It’s one of those things that, when you’re looking to jump over, you got to make sure you’ve got I’m not saying you have to kiss that person’s behind. I’m not saying that. All I’m saying is, that the chemistry has to be there.
Ricky Baez 59:38
Pete, I’ve been saying this all the time, and people don’t seem to believe me, you know, the best way to get a job somewhere. It’s not what you know. It’s not who you know, it’s not even who knows you. Right? People argue that one is right. People are like well, people know you, I’m like no because people can know you and hate you, right?
Ricky Baez 59:56
I know that person, I can’t stand them. But at the end of the day, it really is who likes you. People disagree with me on that. But I’m like, It’s true, though, right? Is it right or wrong? I don’t know. But that’s actually what’s happening. I’ve never heard anybody say, “This person got all the qualifications we need, but oh my god, I can’t stand the because of a, b, and c, I’m going hire them anyway, because they got those qualifications.”
Ricky Baez 1:00:20
That’s not absolute, that doesn’t happen. So again, what I’m saying is folks, when you’re looking to go over, find out who that manager is going to be. Figure out, if you’re going to have a great relationship with that manager again, I’m not saying kiss, but I’m just saying, make sure that you’ve got the right relationship, the great chemistry, and if you guys can work together, you’re going to flourish.
Pete Newsome 1:00:45
That’s where that honesty comes into the interview process, as you mentioned earlier, because if you pretend to be something you’re not to get the job, well it’s just not going to work out well. If the employer presents themselves as something they’re not well, then it’s not going to work out well.
Pete Newsome 1:01:02
It sounds weird, maybe, but when I say in the interview process with someone, once again, I’m sure I said to you last year, hey, if there’s bad, let’s get it on the surface.
Ricky Baez 1:01:15
Pete Newsome 1:01:17
I don’t want to find out three months from now we don’t like each other. Right? Let’s find out right now. And that’s okay, I’d much rather find out bad news early is good news. That’s something we talked about a lot at 4 Corner. If it can’t, it’s not going to be a good fit for a job, someone we’re recruiting. We want to find out in that first phone call.
Pete Newsome 1:01:37
So if the candidates not going to be a good fit, if we didn’t find out in the first phone call, we want to find out in a second. Then we want to find out before we decide to send them their resume over for consideration. We want to find out before the first interview, and if not before the first interview, we want to find out before the second and certainly before they accept the job. And absolutely damn sure before they start.
Pete Newsome 1:01:59
So we want to get it from that initial interaction, in our process, we want to find out from the candidate, what their goals and objectives are before we even start talking about the specific job. Once we go down that road, well that’s going to skew the conversation.
Pete Newsome 1:02:20
If we say it pays X number of dollars an hour, now that number is out there, and they’re their head, maybe they would have been happy with a lower number. More specifically, maybe they needed a higher number, but they’re going to agree to the lower number now just to see what happens. We see that we don’t want that, because ultimately, just like when we hire internally when we’re recruiting on behalf of our clients, we want both parties to be equally happy.
Pete Newsome 1:02:47
So we have to be completely transparent to the greatest degree that we can of painting the picture of what the job really looks like. Candidates, people are smart, they can figure out how to beat the system to get hired. But that’s not the goal.
Pete Newsome 1:03:03
The goal is not to get an interview or an offer or even to have the can accept an offer. The goal is for it to end well. So that I think is probably a good place for us to close. I didn’t tell my story about the job, but it won’t be interesting now, I’ll tell it later.
Ricky Baez 1:03:21
Alright, next episode.
Pete Newsome 1:03:22
It was a job that I didn’t get, when I was 25, I think because I answered the question the way they thought I should answer it.
Ricky Baez 1:03:31
Pete Newsome 1:03:32
That was the reason they said oh, well, then you’re not a good fit for this organization. And they were right now that I understand what it is better. But I answered what I thought they wanted to hear.
Ricky Baez 1:03:43
Well, that’s a topic for the next episode, interview horror stories and what we can learn from them. That’ll be an easy 12 hour podcast.
Pete Newsome 1:03:55
I don’t know we send a few 1000 candidates a year to be considered for roles and so over 16 years, we have a few stories. We’ll have to consider talking to our HR guy.
Ricky Baez 1:04:10
Oh, that’s me.
Pete Newsome 1:04:13
Whether we should share any of those or not.
Ricky Baez 1:04:16
As long as we change names and some intricacies we’re good. I was talking about my own because I have some crazy stories. I’ve learned and I got burned the hard way which is the best lessons, the best lessons, right? Especially when you can see the scar and it reminds you day after day. I’m like don’t do that again Ricky.
Pete Newsome 1:04:35
Pete Newsome 1:04:36
Well, let’s wrap up with that, with the point being that we’ve hoped we’ve made it anyone who’s still with us this is by far our longest podcast.
Ricky Baez 1:04:43
It really has I’m enjoying it.
Pete Newsome 1:04:45
Yeah, well we enjoy it. To enjoy it is the goal.
Ricky Baez 1:04:51
God, we’re here for other people. I keep forgetting that.
Pete Newsome 1:04:55
We want to encourage everyone to look at the big picture, look at the whole picture. Not just what you see with the salary up, there are so many other things that go into it.
Pete Newsome 1:05:08
It is never a one size fits all thing. So if healthcare benefits because of your family situation or a unique medical condition have to be at the top of the list for you, we’ve encountered a lot over the years. Then great that is your criteria. That is what matters to you individually. And that needs to be considered.
Pete Newsome 1:05:30
Sometimes it is just total comp or salary. How much can I stick in my pocket today? I don’t care about benefits. I don’t care about anything else.
Pete Newsome 1:05:37
Okay, yes, for some people, that’s what they need to consider at the top of the list. But for everyone, look at the whole picture. Go into with your eyes wide open, employers too and that’s the approach that we think leads to the best chance for success.
Ricky Baez 1:05:54
If this episode resonated with you, folks, let us know. Let us know download us on your favorite podcast platform, give us a like, shoot us an email, and let us know if you have any stories of your own. If you want us to talk about it, we can change some names and things around with your permission, we could definitely do that and dissect it. That’s Hirecalling@4cornerresources.com.
Pete Newsome 1:06:17
We’ll put that in the show notes. We’re due for a q&a session with questions piling up. So we’ll do that. Let’s do that next week. And, you know, for anyone who’s willing to give us a five star review, we would love that. Back to that point, we will close with this give us feedback on you know, email us how you’d like to see changes or suggestions, we welcome that and we look forward to hearing from you and speaking again very soon.
Ricky Baez 1:06:43
Absolutely. So let us know if the public wants I can put a poll out there to see for the next episode, Pete shows up with a mohawk or just a shaved head. I’m going to put that out there to see how many of our listeners want to see that or me. We’ll see what happens, folks. All right, well, everybody, thank you very much for listening. Drive safe. Have a good one. Bye.
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