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Data-Driven Hiring: Leveraging Analytics for Smarter Recruitment

Episode 63

Episode Overview

Are you utilizing a data-driven hiring strategy? On today’s episode of the Hire Calling Podcast, Pete and Ricky discuss the importance of understanding open positions’ impact on your bottom line. They break down how to calculate the cost of an open position and consider if companies are willing to invest more to fill it quickly.

They also compare the advantages of job boards like Indeed, CareerBuilder, and ZipRecruiter and examine how cost per hire and source per hire can differ. Ricky and Pete discuss how internal websites, social media, employee referrals, and third-party recruiters can be effective sources and how measuring the time-to-hire is essential. Plus, they consider the long-term value of using a third-party recruiter compared to seemingly cheaper options.

Finally, Pete and Ricky evaluate the effectiveness of the hiring process and the importance of measuring job acceptance rates and short-term turnover. They identify potential causes for unattractive job offers, such as low pay, unrealistic expectations, and lengthy hiring processes. Tune in to discover how data-driven hiring can benefit your organization!

35 minutes

View transcript

Recruiting Metrics to Measure

  • Time to hire. Measure it, and then look to improve it. Don’t be content with a long time to hire. And if you’re unsure whether your time to hire is too long, seek help. And if a position goes open for a long time and there’s no impact on the business, consider whether the position is necessary.
  • Cost per hire. How much is it going to take for you to fill the position? And then, where can you improve it? Start tracking everything. Understand where you’re spend money – job boards, internal resources, talent acquisition, and social media. Identify it, establish that baseline number, and then look for opportunities of improvement.
  • Source per hire. Determine the different methods and sources you’ve used in the past. Indeed, CareerBuilder, Monster, ZipRecruiter, LinkedIn, and even your own internal website. Which ones created the right level of efficiency, quality, and cost?
  • Job acceptance rates. Look for the root of the problem. Consider whether you are paying too low, whether your expectations are unrealistic, whether your organization or the job within the organization is so unattractive that no one wants it, or your hiring process is just too complex or lengthy.

Tips on How to Use a Data-Driven Hiring Strategy

  • Use an applicant tracking system. This software tool will help you identify what you need to measure, commit to actually measuring it, find opportunities to improve and, compare. And if you haven’t used one already, start as soon as possible. ATS data will help tell a story to your internal team, get buy-in for spending money, get buy-in for making changes, and reach the leadership at the top. 
  • If you only measure one thing, you won’t get the full picture. Measure all of these things and then tie them together to really understand the data. Go above and beyond that as well – don’t just focus on the data for filling a role, but look deeper into what it took to hire the best person for the job.
  • Consider a third-party recruiter. They do all the work before you will ever see a resume. By the time a candidate is submitted to you, they already know the candidate is a good fit. Whether you are spending too much time or too much money hiring candidates, think about the value these professionals bring to the table. 

Additional Resources

Pete Newsome

About Pete Newsome

Pete Newsome is the president of 4 Corner Resources, the nationally acclaimed staffing and recruiting firm he founded in 2005. His mission back then was the same as it is today: to do business in a personal way, while building an organization with boundless opportunities for ingenuity and advancement. When not managing 4 Corner’s growth or spending time with his family of six, you can find Pete sharing his sales and business expertise through public speaking, writing, and as the host of the Hire Calling podcast.

Ricky Baez

About Rick Baez

Efrain “Ricky” Baez Jr. is a published human resources professional specializing in strategically aligning HR competencies to business goals with a down to earth, common sense approach. Ricky is a four- year veteran of the United States Marine Corps and holds a Masters degree in Human Resources (MHR) from Rollins College and an SPHR certification from the Human Resources Certification Institute. Ricky is also a faculty member for the Master of Human Resources program at Rollins College in Winter Park, Florida.


Pete Newsome: 0:00
You’re listening to The Hire Calling Podcast, your source for all things hiring, staffing and recruiting. I’m Pete Newsom with Ricky Baez again today. Ricky, how are you?

Ricky Baez: 0:09
I’m doing good, Pete. How about yourself?

Pete Newsome: 0:11
I’m doing great. I’m doing great. It’s Friday, it’s beautiful outside, that’s right. You’re back from Europe. How was your?

Ricky Baez: 0:16
trip. It was amazing National Lampoon’s watch out. Maybe some more videos coming out later.

Pete Newsome: 0:23
We’re going to have you run it over a cyclist in London, we’re going to have you randomly showing up at someone’s house in Germany, and which may have happened Do we have some clips coming.

Ricky Baez: 0:37
Oh my, let’s see. Let’s see what it should be all says Well, welcome home.

Pete Newsome: 0:41
Sounds like you had a great time. Enjoy seeing the pictures that you posted and I’m envious. I’ve been here.

Ricky Baez: 0:49
Well, i mean, all I’m saying is I’m glad to be back, glad to be back in the US.

Pete Newsome: 0:53
Well, good Back to be recording and talking about what’s important in the world of recruiting, and today we’re going to address something that maybe isn’t the most sexy topic, but it certainly is important to anyone who hires regularly, and that is using data and the analytics that come from that to improve. Assess your recruiting process Probably doesn’t happen enough. I don’t think companies generally take the data aspect of their recruiting as seriously as they do in other parts of the business, like managing profit and loss, for example, but you may have a different perspective on that.

Ricky Baez: 1:37
Well, i think people will be surprised at how organizations don’t use data to guide their. their hiring and you have to. right, for you to plan a marketing campaign is no different than you planning on vacation for your family. You got to get a budget and got to get a purpose. So, you can figure out what you know how much things cost, because then you have to stay within that budget. Right, because if you don’t stay within that budget, you know your P and L, your profit and loss is going to suffer from a leadership perspective and you can’t.

The whole reason of you hiring somebody to begin with is so the organization can conduct business, and how the organization conducts business is to get a profit out of something, and if you’re spending way too much on one part of that, you’re not going to make a profit and you just make a big mistake. So, yes, data is very crucial in the hiring process to make to make sure you’re doing the right thing for the organization. I agree.

Pete Newsome: 2:32
Now I have a biased perspective on this. perhaps So I want to hear what you have to say from from the other side of the table, which is the internal HR perspective. So I’m coming at this always from a third party standpoint And when I work with the company on contingency meaning we don’t generate any income or revenue as a third party recruiter until the candidate is hired and starts I always want to understand how they approach hiring and time to hire in particular. So I don’t think companies necessarily do a good enough job And this is a general statement.

Some do but understanding how the downside to a position remaining open And so everything you just mentioned, when you, when you consider your budget and how, how to increase efficiency and your recruiting, those things become much more important when you realize that there’s a real cost in a downside to a position staying open.

But I’ll say, most organizations out there don’t put, don’t see, put, don’t place the right value on on that open position, meaning they don’t realize the harm that it’s done, they don’t realize it’s costing them money. Now again, i’m I don’t want to appear biased with that because of course I’m I’m motivated for that position to be filled quickly. That’s how I make make a living. What do you think about that?

Ricky Baez: 4:05
Well, from its what I think about it. it’s, it’s, i think I can best describe by giving you an example of how I, how I used to run my recruitment team back when I was working as C or so improvements And but in in order for me to get support from the top. now this is just the recruiting manager trying to get support, more finances, more money for for the recruitment effort is for me to calculate the impact of the absence of somebody in that position.

If I had to calculate how much money is lost for every empty seat per hour and that was $1,000 for every empty seat per hour we had to fill 316 positions a year. Right, and man, let me tell you, when you pull that number, you pull that data. it really, it really brings things into perspective because that gives you a certain motivation from a recruiter that otherwise wouldn’t be there. You’re costing the organization money for every day this, this position goes on field. So what are you doing to stop that bleeding?

Pete Newsome: 5:05
So we’re talking that’s what it was. We’re talking thousands of hours, thousands of dollars a day, Right, for an empty position. Now, did the company buy into that? because if you follow that logic out, then you’d say, well, if, if this is going to cost the cost of an open seat is north of a hundred thousand dollars a month, then anything we spend less than that is is a win. But I don’t think most companies are reaching into their pockets To spend a hundred thousand dollars on an open call center position, right?

Ricky Baez: 5:36
So we know that we’re not so far less than that, so far less. And no, it’s, it’s. But it Paints you a good picture and it paints where you are in that puzzle and what you need to do in that puzzle. Right, so that’s so. So our budgeting was about 10 to 15 percent of what that monthly income would be for that person. And if I couldn’t bring that that person in at 10 to 15 percent, then something was wrong with my process.

Either something was wrong with my process or a new, a new competitor came into town who’s stealing all of our people. We have to look at all those variables. The worst thing you can do as a business owner is to jump into Into a recruiting venture with with blindfolds on and not have an expert who’s been doing this for a while, not have somebody Who knows the numbers inside and out who can come in. Take a look at what your plan is, mason, tweezing that plan and kind of help you bring that person across that finish line. So It’s, you have to pull those numbers out so you can see how much help you need.

Pete Newsome: 6:36
Well, let’s get specific and talk about the numbers that matter, and and so back to the first one. I think the most important one is Do you know your time to hire and do you? do you have a target? Do you have history? and in What you just said, if you’re starting from scratch, you’re starting from scratch right. You should get guidance from someone like you who’s an HR consultant, someone like Four-corner resources as a third-party staffing company.

Now You have to select wisely. If you’re, if you’re looking for that help, so go with someone who’s experienced incredible and and and That’s its own conversation, perhaps but once you Establish that this is important to you and you buy into that, and then you have to start measuring. What is a good time to hire? Can you put a general amount or date of time on that, or is it going to vary significantly by position?

Ricky Baez: 7:34
It’s good, it’s both. It’s going to vary significantly by position, but you have to do your own research on it, right? Or you could buy that, that, that research out there. But if you’re looking for customer service people, right, it’s. It’s. Even if you’re starting out as a brand new organization right now, you need to track how long it takes for you to hire somebody. And let’s say you’ve tracked it for two years, you take a look at the past 12 months and see how long on average it takes to fill that position.

That’s, that’s your marker right there. For customer service, it could be 30 days. Right, it could be 15 30 days. It really depends on on how the market is. But let’s say you’re you’re, you’re partnering with an engineering firm. Let’s say you’re partnering with a doctor’s office and you’re trying to find somebody who specializes in the lower intestines I don’t know, it’s a really, really neat specific skill set.

Obviously, that’s going to take a lot longer because it’s those types of resumes don’t just fall out of the sky, right? you really have to go out and find a recruiting firm, a third-party firm that specializes in that. That way, you go into the world, find out what’s best for you and then you get out quickly. I have seen that when you go out to a third party to fill out those specialized positions, they turn out to bring in better candidates because they know where to look and they know where to find.

Pete Newsome: 8:54
They’ll that that type of person well, so it depends on the position the third party Recruiter in theory has a lot more dedicated time to focus on on on recruiting. But it’s fair to say that the larger the candidate pool, the faster you can fill a role. Absolutely. Now it doesn’t mean to say I’ll just. You know, since you brought up the third-party recruiter aspect, if you have a, if you have to fill those customer service positions at scale and you have to do it quickly, that you still may need to leverage a third-party recruiter.

So you have to understand what the situation is and then buy into How fast you need to fill the role. So if you say as a company and I’m constantly surprised, even though I’ve been doing this a long time when I hear timeframes of lead time that recruiters have internal recruiters, corporate recruiters to fill certain positions, where Those are measured in weeks and months, at times right 60 days to fill a staff level role That a third-party recruiter would measure in hours and days to fill, and so I think there’s a lot of improvement to be made.

From in my experience of where I see that time to hire being too loose, too generous. So Let’s again start from the premise that an open position costs company money. It may damage customer service, it may cause employee burnout for those who are having to pick up the slack. So a lot of bad comes with an open position and as that third-party recruiter over the years. And we’ll get past it after this and Continue with the this where we should be in this episode.

But I’ll tell you I you know, if I have a client and they can’t tell me what happens if They that position goes unfilled, i’m skeptical of working with them. Because if anyone who thinks an open position is no big deal, well, they’ve either have a position open They probably don’t need or they’re not approaching it in the right way. So time to hire, measure it and then look to improve it. Don’t be content with a long time to hire And if you’re not sure whether your time to hire is too long, get help. You seek help.

Ricky Baez: 11:10
Absolutely seek help, absolutely, and look in and I know you and I have talked about this in the past. I mean you also get unintended information with this kind of data. Because if, if a position goes open For a long time and there’s no impact on the business, then what a good partner should do is look that you even need, need this position, right, right, obviously you’re not feeling any pain.

If you’re not feeling any pain to me, that tells me you just Bernie payroll. Right so let’s and you know, maybe that’s a leaf that the company has yet to turn that you helping them in that process. So that’s adding more value to that partnership. There you go.

Pete Newsome: 11:46
Okay so. So I like that a lot. And then the next one of course we have to think about is cost per hire. Yeah, how much is it going to take for you to fill the position? and then, where can you improve it? So it’s not about just identifying it, you have to identify it first. So that’s where the data comes in.

You have to know what you’re what you’re spending on job boards, what you’re spending on internal resources and for talent acquisition and recruiting, what you’re spending for social media, what you’re spending on third-party recruiters. So there’s all of these aspects that go into it. And then you, you have to identify it, establish what that baseline number is and then look for opportunities to improve it And especially with the way things work today.

Ricky Baez: 12:31
I mean again back with my old company. We used to use indeed a lot, a lot, and if I remember I’m just pulling this number out of the air I think my cost per hire was about $15 per position, right, and indeed once it’s calculated all the way to the end, not per applicant or hire. And then later on we started to experiment with different things because the well went dry. So we decided to do radio ads Pete, who does radio ads these days? I know we did And I think I spent I must have spent like $4,000 on a radio ad for one month And I got two hires out of that, two hires. So I quickly went from $15. Okay.

Pete Newsome: 13:11
Ricky, hold on, i have to stop you $15 for an. Indeed, you weren’t spending $15 on. Indeed, someone’s giving you bad data on that. No, back then. Yeah.

Ricky Baez: 13:23
On, indeed, 2016?.

Pete Newsome: 13:25
I don’t know. A job posting, a single job posting was hundreds of dollars back then.

Ricky Baez: 13:31
Oh, but wait a minute. So it depends on the organization, right? Because on the organization we had $250,000 license that I got a little bit out of that, But I’m trying to find out.

Pete Newsome: 13:41
I don’t even think indeed existed in 2016. Just for the yeah, they were maybe the new kid on the block back then. Maybe that’s why? Maybe they were giving their job postings away Back in 2016,. That was when Career Builder was, i think was the strongest.

Ricky Baez: 13:57
Well, that’s why I prefer it back then, because there’s a lot. It’s very different right now, very different.

Pete Newsome: 14:03
I just don’t want anyone thinking that $15 to fill a position is something that they could expect to.

Ricky Baez: 14:10
What is it right now, these days? I don’t know.

Pete Newsome: 14:12
I don’t think it depends on the organization, but just if you but see, i would argue you’re not really measuring. even if you had a very inexpensive cost of a job board, how many resumes did you have to go through? How much time did you have to use in internal staff?

Ricky Baez: 14:30
Oh, no, no, no, that’s a whole different. No, i get that, because then I have to measure man hours and how much this takes and everything All different thing. No, i’m talking about from a from an advertising perspective. Right, because we spent $4,000 on this ad. We hire two people, and now what We hire in two people cause me thousands And I’m like, all right, we need to go back and do something else, do something different.

But you have to know what that price is and what. What Pete was alluding to early. You have to count the man hours that are in there, that you have to interview, the man hours to shift through these resumes. These are things that you have to account for. So you, if you don’t have that number right now, start today, start tracking everything today. Start talking to your recruiters. Let them know to track everything on paper.

Most importantly, let them know why you’re doing it, because they might be freaking out, thinking, oh man, if my job on the line? no, not really. We’re just trying to see how you’re spending your time so I can keep track of my hours. So, 2016, completely, completely old information.

Pete Newsome: 15:34
No, well, you know, look, i thought about it. You had a few seconds to think about it. I think, indeed, was really coming into prominence a little bit earlier than that. So I think you’re right about that. Time blurs for me as it goes on. But still, the $15, you weren’t getting anything for $15 on Indeed, that I can tell you. Okay. So Thanks, inflation. So cost per hire and then source per hire. Since we’re talking about that, let’s address that in terms of job boards like Indeed. Indeed is 800 pound gorilla. Today It’s been career builder, in the past It’s been monster.

Zip recruiter is prevalent. Of course, linkedin is a source that many companies spend time on, but that’s not it right? It’s not just job boards, it’s your own internal website. Is that working? That’s free. So if you have a big enough brand, your own internal website can be a really powerful source. Social media, employee referrals and then third party recruiters are a very popular source.

That’s a data point that you should also measure and say, okay, we filled 10 positions with this level or this title last year. Here are the different methods and sources that we used. Which ones created the right level of efficiency, quality and then cost. So if you only measure one thing, you’re not going to get the full picture, so you really do need to, in addition to measuring the time to hire and factoring that it right.

So that’s also what the source Did. We fill the position using a third party recruiter in two days, where it took us two months posting on LinkedIn, right? So even though that is the less expensive option and now that you said $15, no one’s going to hear anything else I’m not going to let that one go.

Even though it may seem cheaper to post on LinkedIn although that would still be $50,000 over two months But if you can fill the position in a week using a third party recruiter, even though you’re paying more, that may end up being better for the organization as a whole and saving money and increasing efficiency in a significant way. So you do have to measure all these things and then tie them together to really get the full picture.

Ricky Baez: 17:57
And also not just So. I would venture I would push people to go above and beyond that as well. Not just focus on how much it costs to bring somebody in, but the costs have to be built in to make sure people do their due diligence. The amount of time being spent on making sure that you’ve got the right person for the role, not just the right person to fill the role at that time, the right person for the role who’s going to stick around for a while, that takes time. So that takes time. So that has to be built in there as well.

We can’t just be looking to hiring as quickly as possible. We have to look at hiring as quickly, hiring the best person for the job as quickly as possible, that little sense of things to be in there to make sure, because otherwise you’re going to have a high 30-day turnover rate.

Pete Newsome: 18:43
Yeah, i mean, if you want that holistic view, you start with employees who last versus employees who quickly turnover. Now there’s a point and some period of time maybe it’s six months, maybe it’s even a few months of saying, okay, turnover is no longer tied to our hiring process. Retention is now in a different bucket, don’t you agree where I agree, there’s a point where the recruiting process can only impact that so much.

But you can impact short-term turnover in improving how you recruit. So that data point needs to be measured The number of candidates it takes to interview in order to select one. Because now, if you’re taking the time of your hiring team, it may involve executives, it may involve multiple hiring managers, multiple rounds of interviews, even at times. So now it’s okay. Do we have a breakdown in our selection process?

Are we interviewing too many of the wrong candidates? Are we screening too many bad applications for this job? Maybe your job, the way you’ve posted your job, isn’t really leading to the right results, and that’s once again. Maybe a third-party recruiter is in the mix. Are they delivering? How close to a one-to-one ratio?

Are they delivering from interviews or candidates they submit to those you choose to interview and of those you interview you choose to hire, so all of these come in. So, in addition to time to hire cost per hire source, we need to talk about the. You need to make sure you’re measuring the job acceptance rate as well as the short-term turnover, and I think that pains the picture.

Ricky Baez: 20:28
It would it would. So the job acceptance rate. can we talk about that for a second, because that one baffles me, pete. So job, how long it takes for somebody to accept a job, to me that’s a telltale sign, because to me, if you as a recruiter or you as the hiring authority, you got the person to be pay attention enough to stay through the entire process, what’s happening at the job offer that’s causing them to stop and think about it?

Aside from the number, because the number they get is different than the experience they got. They can get an amazing experience, but if it’s not the number they want, they’re not going to accept the job. So from my perspective, i guess my question is what happens in an interview process when you get somebody to interview all the way through, but now they kind of slow down during the acceptance process, and why is that so important?

Pete Newsome: 21:25
Okay, so there’s. I have to approach that from a couple of different ways. But first let’s just say that you can have all the analysis and gather all the data and try to improve it as best you can, but if your position is unattractive, you can’t fix that right. So if the organization, if you find that no one wants your job, you can’t fool the market. So you may have to consider whether you are paying too low, whether your expectations are unrealistic, whether your organization or the job within the organization is so unattractive that no one wants it, or your hiring process is too complex or lengthy.

All of these things could go into why you’re not getting a higher acceptance rate. So that’s one aspect of it. So make sure that if that is happening, you’re looking at really what the root of the problem is. Now I will also say that and by the way, i’ll say this time to hire is a huge factor in that If you’re dragging it out and the recruiting team internally is doing their job and then the hiring manager sits on the resume for a week or two, good luck, right.

There’s no recruiting organization that can fix that. So that’s something that I think you have to go up the chain with internally and make sure. But again, that’s where the data has to tell the story. So if you are that internal recruiting team and you’re getting heat for too many positions going unfilled and you have the data to show, yes, but we’ve sent 10 candidates and it took a week for the hiring manager to review and then another week to schedule and then another week to have that interview process carried out and then another week to have the offers being made.

We just had a month to it. And that is not uncommon and it happens a lot and there’s no reason for it, right? I mean there’s reasons, but they’re bad, so the excuse isn’t going to justify the outcome. The last thing I’ll say on that is if you are the third party recruiter, this is where you can really have an impact of understanding. If I’m doing my job as a third party recruiter, i’ve qualified the candidate through all of these things up front. I understand. Let’s say, there is a lengthy recruiting process.

Now I have to decide whether that’s something the market will bear and whether this is a job that I should take on, because if I don’t intend to work on any job, i won’t work on a job unless I will fill it as a third party recruiter. I can’t say I’m business. That way I can’t be effective. So I have to consider what is the interview process? Is it going to take a month? Alright. Well, now if it’s a great brand, a great job. Maybe that works.

If it’s a so-so brand and a so-so job, that probably isn’t going to work, not in a competitive market. And then I have to consider whether the candidate that I’m screening and qualifying I want to screen them all the way through the job offer up front. So if I’ve done my job, by the time I submit the candidate to you as my client, i already know that they’re a good fit. I already know that they’re going to interview.

Well, i already know that they’re interested and intend to accept the offer, provided something out of the blue doesn’t happen. So that’s where the value of a third party recruiter really comes in, where I’ve done all that up front before you ever see a resume from me.

Ricky Baez: 25:06
No, and it’s true. And another great reason why organizations should really pay attention to this kind of data is to help them realize, as me as a business owner, am I willing to spend so much time and effort on this as a recruiter versus I could just save some money, lend an expert handle of this and let me go with a third party agency who can take care of that.

Pete Newsome: 25:31
It all depends. Again, you have to know your organization, you have to know your skills and available resources and strengths and where you’re willing to spend time, and someone has to spend it somewhere. It’s just a matter of whether you want to do it or you want to pay someone else to do it. Take this oil change analogy. I could change the oil in my car right. I think I’m intelligent enough to do it, but I’m going to get greasy, i’m going to get my hands dirty, i’m not going to do it efficiently, i’m probably going to make a mess in the process. Or I could take it to someone who does this all day, every day. They’re really good at it.

Ricky Baez: 26:09
They’re efficient.

Pete Newsome: 26:11
They’re going to do it right and they’re going to identify problems, if there are any, of course I’m going to do that right. I mean, of course I don’t want to be pennywise and pound foolish when making these kind of decisions.

Ricky Baez: 26:21
That’s a great analogy right there. I like the oil change because, look, i can change my own oil in my own car. It’s going to be dirty. I’m going to feel crappy afterwards. Now I got to take the oil back to this place, so it’s me saving money. worth that kind of an aggravation, i guess.

Pete Newsome: 26:39
Well, and I would argue from that perspective, the data comes in right. I would argue you’re not saving money. So not to go too far with this analogy, but if you know your value, what is an hour of your time worth To go to the store to order the oil, to look up how to do it, if you don’t already know, to go through the process of doing it, and you add that up and then you compare that to the cost of going to you know, a I don’t know if it’s called retail, but a jiffy lube a place that changes your oil. I bet most people would be surprised or realize they’re not actually saving money doing it themselves.

Ricky Baez: 27:18
They’re not right. So, that works. Same thing here, then right. If you’re a business owner and you’re like, you know what? I just want to get the right candidate here and right now. And then I got my own people here that I can justify their payroll doing something for the business right now. Why not go that route?

Pete Newsome: 27:36
But if you and here’s the answer to that, and I think this is the most important point we can make today If you don’t know the data behind it and you’re just making a gut decision on this and you think, without knowing the numbers, i assume that $20,000 fee that the third party recruiter is charging is going to cost me more money.

But you may be very wrong, you may find out, and the $20,000 you’d spend is the savings over what you’re losing in revenue, over what you’re going to pay in internal resources and paying for your own job boards and all the inefficiencies that come with how you do it versus how that third party would do it. So don’t just look at the number on the surface, measure the data that goes into the number and then you’ll be equipped to make a smart financial decision.

There you go, but most won’t do it right. But there’s a way to do it. So how would you do it? Well, it starts with your applicant tracking system, so we’d be remiss if we didn’t talk about that. The ATS is the method, the software tool that you use to collect the data on your candidates, and today’s applicant tracking systems are equipped to measure everything we’ve talked about today, and then some. I mean they’re probably overkill in many respects. We’ll talk about ATSs on a different episode. Which ones have you used, by the way?

Ricky Baez: 28:59
I’ve used Brass Ring. Brass Ring is the one that I’ve used the most Brass Ring I think there was another one called TAS years ago, but Brass Ring is the one that has all those bills and whistles that you say that sometimes you’re like why, what are the might discovered that was great. I wasn’t using it for a while. Pete and people listening might love this.

So there was a measuring tool in Brass Ring that kind of told me how long people took to apply. I loved that. I ignored that for years and I loved that because I was able to pull information and get data on how long where in the process the people stop applying, came back later and, on average, how long they spend on it. Love Story short, i was able to figure out people would spend no more than 15 minutes in a job application. No more on on the data that I pull. Now This was 2018. I mean, i don’t know what it would, what it is now, since $15 per hire was $15 per hire, so I’m gonna think about the rest of that.

That is good information to grab, because if you have people that start your application and don’t finish, you’re missing out on great talent, because these are people who who have the skills that you’re looking for. They looked at your job but they didn’t want to waste any more of your time. You know who’s actually gonna see that through, people who are not horrible anywhere else, right there, because they know they don’t have any other options, so they’re gonna go through with it.

So that gave me a lot of good informations for us to redo our application process, to bring it down from 45 minutes to five, and That changed that whole product. It was amazing, amazing. So, folks, i’m telling you, your applicant tracking system. If you’re able to see time to apply in there, use that data. It will give you a lot of information but otherwise will not be In front of you the best.

Pete Newsome: 30:55
The best candidates have the lowest tolerance for those things.

Ricky Baez: 30:58
Oh There it is, the best candidates has the lowest tolerance for those things. They do it’s a hundred percent true, that’s and then you wonder why the people who apply they don’t, they don’t turn out to be good employees, because they’re the only ones Who apply you. You have built an invisible barrier where great people go somewhere else. Great people repellent, that’s what I’m gonna call it. There you go.

Pete Newsome: 31:23
It’s like like right like raid for It’s like raid for good candidates right or was that old Batman episode where they were like it’s Batman had the shark Repel.

Ricky Baez: 31:34
it’s our career, that’s right candidate repellent way off Great candidate repellent.

Pete Newsome: 31:41
There’s two. There’s two things you can count on. Every podcast We do, ricky, they coming up, food and superheroes have to be, have to be brought up. You got that right, but before before. So I think we’ve. I think we’ve covered this for the most part right. So just to recap What you need to do, you know the best thing you can do is start with An applicant tracking system where you can have a dashboard.

You identify what you need to measure, you commit to actually measuring it, find opportunities to improve and, you know, compare. That’s how you do it right. Here’s, here’s what we’re doing now And if you haven’t done this already, then start right. Of course, the best time to do it is yesterday Or five years ago, rather. What’s the, what’s the line? the best time is ten years ago. Whatever it is, the next best time is today.

So that’s right. Research your applicant tracking systems, figure out, talk to your peers if you’re in, if you’re in third-party recruiting, of course, lots, of, lots of resources and advice there. Maybe we’ll bring out on some, some ATS vendors to the podcast and let them. Let them pitch their own products. But Start with that. Create your dashboard and, once you start measuring your, your, your numbers, compare them to the past, look for opportunities, improve, to improve and share with relevant people. I mean, you can’t just give this to the recruiting team and say, look how you’re doing.

You have to use this to tell a story internally, to get buy-in for spending money, to get buy-in for making changes, and the leadership at the top. You may have trouble in between right mid-management Management struggles with these things because they’re busy, they’re consumed with other things. It may not have the same impact. But if you get this data to the top and you find out you know the chief executive or a CFO, whoever it is finds out that These positions are staying open just because you’re you’re not willing to spend money to fill them.

Okay, i mean, i’ll go back to what I always say if you’re content with the position remaining open it never should have been open in the first place That’s right. You don’t really need to fill that job. So one or the other you need to be there, be efficient and motivated to do it quickly, or Yeah, could reconsider whether the job was even needed.

Ricky Baez: 33:57
That’s right, and and if you continue to do this because I’ve seen that so many times, pete And you know how much money you’re wasting just continuing to recruit for position That’s not even needed right now. It’s that’s all of the show, sorry.

Pete Newsome: 34:09
So we won’t do that today. We won’t do that wrap up. Thank you for listening, ricky. This weekend You know what I’m doing It’s transformers weekend, so trans new transformers is opening. That’s this weekend It opens. So I’ll be there tomorrow night because the NBA’s tonight, so can’t go on my normal Friday.

Ricky Baez: 34:26
That’s it.

Pete Newsome: 34:27
But that’s it. That’s what I’m doing.

Ricky Baez: 34:30
I’m waiting for the, for the flash to follow a weekend and that looks good too, i’ll be there as well.

Pete Newsome: 34:35
So You know me, i have to go to my movies, so huh and you know me with with my state.

Ricky Baez: 34:41
So Pete is going to be back with an amazing review from transformers and I’m gonna let you know what kind of rabbi I had.

Pete Newsome: 34:47
That’s it. That’s it So predictable. Superheroes and movies. All right, ricky, have a great weekend and we’ll talk soon. Have a good one, bye.

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